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re: Statins for cholesterol? Yes or No
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:38 am to ItzMe1972
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:38 am to ItzMe1972
quote:
Statins for cholesterol? Yes or No
My GP has been trying to get me on statins.
I haven't in the past. Thoughts?
The O-T is the right place for you.
Never make any critical medical decisions without consulting the professionals.
0
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:41 am to jeffsdad
quote:Some people have hereditary high cholesterol and nothing you do with your diet will change it, don't let the people claiming they know better tell you otherwise.
I tried every form of “diet” there is and was very strict. Nothing got my cholesterol below 200.
That isn't to say a lot of people COULD help/lower theirs with diet and weight changes, but some people will need statins to lower theirs. And its a higher number than the "just lose weight" crowd are aware of.
Peter Attia (amongst others), an actual doctor, has a bunch of info on his podcast/youtube channel about statins I would encourage anyone curious about the subject to look in to. Much more effective and much lower side effects (percentage of people who get them as well as severity) than this thread would lead you to believe.
This post was edited on 8/28/23 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:47 am to BigBinBR
quote:
Get on them. Statins are good for people even without high cholesterol.
No.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:51 am to jeffsdad
quote:
I tried every form of “diet” there is and was very strict. Nothing got my cholesterol below 200.
Be more specific. Are you Obese?
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:57 am to Sev09
My cholesterol level had always been on the high side as far back as I can remember, despite not being overweight. I started taking atorvastatin 40 mg (Lipitor) five years ago and it has kept my level way in check. My last total cholesterol was ~ 115, LDL ~55. No side effects whatsoever. I do exercise regularly but I also have fried foods and sweets about weekly.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 11:11 am to 62Tigerfan
quote:
I also have fried foods and sweets about weekly
All those pills do is allow you to continue to practice bad/unhealthy habits but suppress your levels making them 'normal'
99% of people can fix this on their own but either don't care or are too lazy to do such.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 11:58 am to ronricks
Called heterozygous fh…… 6’2” 210.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 12:25 pm to jeffsdad
Red rice yeast.
Red rice yeast is essentially an statin,basically same as lovastatin.
I would rather take a prescription statin.The purity and active ingredient can vary in OTC RRY.
People have suffered liver damage from RRY.If taking a statin Dr. will monitor liver enzymes.
Red rice yeast is essentially an statin,basically same as lovastatin.
I would rather take a prescription statin.The purity and active ingredient can vary in OTC RRY.
People have suffered liver damage from RRY.If taking a statin Dr. will monitor liver enzymes.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 12:36 pm to crazy4lsu
Statins reduce mace by 1-2% ARR and relative is 25%, can you explain what the RRR is relative to. Also people want to condemn a low 1% arr, but this is for only 2.5 years. What do the studies say about mace reduction when on statins on for decades?
I saw a study that said most people who have heart attacks have low cholesterol. To many that means they don’t work, but I imagine much to the contrary can be extracted from that.
There is an old drug, bempedoic acid, without all the muscle side effects that has recently shown just as effective as statins.
Also glp1 inhibitors showing as effective as statins, probably a lot from just weight loss, and many who favor a certain diet to reduce ldl, it’s likely from weight loss.
I saw a study that said most people who have heart attacks have low cholesterol. To many that means they don’t work, but I imagine much to the contrary can be extracted from that.
There is an old drug, bempedoic acid, without all the muscle side effects that has recently shown just as effective as statins.
Also glp1 inhibitors showing as effective as statins, probably a lot from just weight loss, and many who favor a certain diet to reduce ldl, it’s likely from weight loss.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 1:15 pm to ItzMe1972
A lot of the side effects that people experience are from the fact that statins cause a depletion of Coq 10 so it’s a supplement is often prescribed along with the statin to reduce or eliminate the side effects
This post was edited on 8/29/23 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 8/28/23 at 1:26 pm to ronricks
quote:
99% of people can fix this on their own but either don't care or are too lazy to do such.
Patently false but don't let actual data and studies get in the way of your narrative.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 3:32 pm to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
Cholesterol is not nearly as big of an issue as we've been told. Just saying...
"Cholesterol" is not a big deal at all. The lipoprotein, which carries the cholesterol, is the 800 lb gorilla. Atherosclerosis is a lipoprotein mediated disease, not a cholesterol mediated disease.
You get heart attacks by having too many lipoprotein particles, not by having too much cholesterol in those lipoprotein particles. Which is why simply getting an LDL-C lab, which most primary providers will get, is analogous to weighing the cars on the road instead of counting them to find out how close you are to a traffic jam (heart attack).
If your provider is not getting an LDL-P, you should ask for one or find a different provider. And that is the number that needs to be brought down, either by lifestyle or medications such as statins or PCSK9 inhibitors.
Every year in lipidology research, they're finding that the lower the LDL, the lower the risk of heart attacks. Previous guidelines had the cut off at 140, then moved to 100, now move to 70 for only high risk patients and 55 in super high risk patients. Eventually they're going to recommend LDL levels below 50 for every person, including healthy people, because it is only at those levels that atherosclerotic heart disease does not develop, and the level at which current atherosclerotic heart disease begins to recede in the other direction. That's why the number needed to treat with current statin therapy is so terrible, because the guidelines only recommend going below 100 or below 70, which is not enough. That's why 30 to 40% of people on statins still have heart attacks, because their levels were not reduced sufficiently.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 4:38 pm to emanresu
Repatha reduces LDL to the teens, investors were ecstatic until they found out that the reduction in mace was not linear.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 6:44 pm to jeffsdad
quote:
Called heterozygous fh…… 6’2” 210.
Your BMI is 27. You might be chiseled with muscle, but statistics says probably not. It would help if you lost around 20 pounds.
This post was edited on 8/28/23 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 8/28/23 at 7:21 pm to StringedInstruments
Yeah, wouldn't help anything and I'd look like a string bean. And have plenty of muscle, not chiseled.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 7:32 pm to StringedInstruments
First heart attack at 43. Docs didn't want to believe it and kept telling me it was probably this or that. The nurses, who were close friends, ignored the primary ER doc and treated me for a MI. No High blood pressure, no history, no drink or smoke, no family history...nothing but a slightly high non fasting chol , which didn't mean anything. I was 205 pounds at the time. Did heart cath, six blockages, 2 days later 5 bypasses and ran out of time for 6th, stent for that later. Also, initial ekg and bloodwork were normal. (which it has been on everyone since). Of course the 12 hour draw showed (and always shows) an elevated troponin, which is diagnostic for MI. All my blockages were over 95%. I thank the Lord everyday for Repatha.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 7:43 pm to Rust Cohle
quote:
I saw a study that said most people who have heart attacks have low cholesterol.
I question that study. Low cholesterols (lower than normal range) is relatively rare in the lab. I doubt you'd get 5 people out of 200 that had a lower than normal range chol.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:21 pm to emanresu
quote:
"Cholesterol" is not a big deal at all. The lipoprotein, which carries the cholesterol, is the 800 lb gorilla. Atherosclerosis is a lipoprotein mediated disease, not a cholesterol mediated disease.
You get heart attacks by having too many lipoprotein particles, not by having too much cholesterol in those lipoprotein particles. Which is why simply getting an LDL-C lab, which most primary providers will get, is analogous to weighing the cars on the road instead of counting them to find out how close you are to a traffic jam (heart attack).
If your provider is not getting an LDL-P, you should ask for one or find a different provider. And that is the number that needs to be brought down, either by lifestyle or medications such as statins or PCSK9 inhibitors.
Every year in lipidology research, they're finding that the lower the LDL, the lower the risk of heart attacks. Previous guidelines had the cut off at 140, then moved to 100, now move to 70 for only high risk patients and 55 in super high risk patients. Eventually they're going to recommend LDL levels below 50 for every person, including healthy people, because it is only at those levels that atherosclerotic heart disease does not develop, and the level at which current atherosclerotic heart disease begins to recede in the other direction. That's why the number needed to treat with current statin therapy is so terrible, because the guidelines only recommend going below 100 or below 70, which is not enough. That's why 30 to 40% of people on statins still have heart attacks, because their levels were not reduced sufficiently.
Do you have any good review articles that cover this, especially on reversing / receding atherosclerotic disease? I've only seen mixed stuff on that topic with the default conclusion of 'there is no evidence of reversal'. Thanks
Posted on 8/29/23 at 7:34 am to POTUS2024
quote:
Do you have any good review articles that cover this, especially on reversing / receding atherosclerotic disease? I've only seen mixed stuff on that topic with the default conclusion of 'there is no evidence of reversal
yes there is evidence. google pomegrante juice and atherosclerotic disease and combined with vit K2 it works
quote:
here are studies showing plaque reductions at 13%, 22%, 26% and 35% at months 3 then 6 then 9 then 12 which is beyond remarkable.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
take the super vit k and take 8oz of PJ for 9-12 months and retest. If you really want to make a difference combine with 8,000 iu of nattokinase
LINK
LINK
LINK
Posted on 8/29/23 at 8:41 am to Lithium
Red yeast rice contains a statin...
quote:
One of the compounds is monacolin K, the same ingredient that is in the prescription cholesterol-lowering drug lovastatin (Altoprev).
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