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Message
re: Football Opportunity < Educational Opportunity
Posted on 1/23/10 at 10:37 pm to TheHiddenFlask
Posted on 1/23/10 at 10:37 pm to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
After you get your first job, it's all about how smart you are. The only thing from college that is still going to help you is the networking you did while you were there. If you are a worthless idiot with an ivy league education, no one is going to want you.
I certainly agree that after the first job - a lot depends on what you make of your career and that you control a huge amount.
BUT I have seen it time and again that for that next step from say Senior Manager to Director or Director to VP it always helps if not downright necessary if you have the "right college degree".
All things being equal the degree from Harvard,Wharton, Stanford ,MIT,Caltech always have the edge.
This is because you can play it safe that these schools have assured you of a certain level based on their acceptance, curriculum, peers, etc...
Also another reason these schools matter is because you build networking where ever you go and at Ivy and similar schools you get to network with guys who, given the current system, tend to get the bigger jobs and therefore would be very helpful to you and vice versa.
I am not stating that merit can't stand on it's own - only that it certainly helps if we also have the pedigree and in some cases the pedigree alone assures you of a second job if you mess the first.
So while a 2.6 at Stanford will not help you from being fired from one company - it certainly will get you another shot, quicker, at getting hired by another company out there.
1
Posted on 1/23/10 at 11:41 pm to Green Ram 2
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/26/10 at 6:22 am
Posted on 1/24/10 at 12:10 am to CalTiger
quote:
CalTiger
I agree with all that, and I addressed many of the points earlier. However, the scope is of the average HS football recruit.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 2:01 am to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
I agree with all that, and I addressed many of the points earlier. However, the scope is of the average HS football recruit.
Yes and I agree that this is a completely different ball game.
I think it would be good if more emphasis were somehow placed on ensuring that the players had to take a certain number of core courses so that even if they don't graduate, at least they are assured of having a certain level of knowledge.
So if they are unfortunate and don't get to play further in the Pros, even if they don't graduate from Stanford or LSU at least they won't have to start from square one when facing the real world.
This post was edited on 1/24/10 at 2:04 am
Posted on 1/24/10 at 7:57 am to Green Ram 2
quote:Do you value education enough to encourage him to play for the Air Force Academy over a power house football program?
No I wouldn't choose his college, but I'm instilling in him the value of his education versus the value of his far-fetched dream. Choosing a Vandy or Stanford over a powerhouse program can ultimately get you where you want to go, if not in athletics, then in life.
This post was edited on 1/24/10 at 7:59 am
Posted on 1/24/10 at 8:38 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
The UC schools (outside of Cal and UCLA) are nothing special academically
How do you define "special"? Top 10? UC-Irvine, UC-Riverside, etc. are all good schools, just check out the rankings. They rank higher than LSU.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 8:42 am to Rockerbraves
quote:
Do you value education enough to encourage him to play for the Air Force Academy over a power house football program?
All the military academies are top ranked.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 10:51 am to Green Ram 2
quote:
Parents who stress the football rather than the free education and life after football opportunities are idiotic. As much as I love LSU, if my son had offers from Vandy, Stanford, etc.... there'd be no long recruiting process. Palo Alto or Nashville here we come.
This is stupid. In so many ways.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 11:06 am to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
After you get your first job, it's all about how smart you are.
I disagree. Degrees from some schools carry more weight than others.
Just think....
If you were an employer and you had two applicants going for the same job, both with the same type of degree and the same number of years experience in my field....
Only one had a degree from LSU while the other had a degree from Duke or Vanderbilt or Penn or Cal Berkley....
Which one do you hire?
Its a no-brainer. You hire the guy who went to the better school....all other things being equal.
I know that my degree from the University of Texas continues to serve me well, as it seems the reputation of UT is better outside of Austin than in Austin.
If I'm going up against an LSU grad with my UT degree, I feel pretty damn confident that I'm the better applicant.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 11:49 am to TxTiger82
quote:
If I'm going up against an LSU grad with my UT degree, I feel pretty damn confident that I'm the better applicant.
And rubbing elbows trumps almost any degree. It's funny how people can't think outside the box. And what UT degree are you talking about? You know there are scores and scores of degrees? Is it an 3.0 English degree from UT up against a 3.3 Petroleum Engineering degree? FFS, the world doesn't work like half the people on this thread make it out to work.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 11:49 am to RedlandsTiger
quote:
How do you define "special"? Top 10? UC-Irvine, UC-Riverside, etc. are all good schools, just check out the rankings. They rank higher than LSU.
The "other" UCs are all incredibly overranked. The system is set up to where they can overrate each other in peer assessment, and it has a rather large impact on the actual rankings (peer assessment surveys comprise 25% of the overall ranking)
Posted on 1/24/10 at 12:01 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
If I'm going up against an LSU grad with my UT degree, I feel pretty damn confident that I'm the better applicant.
And maybe if I was smart enough to apply for a job with a Fraternity brother or with a connection of similar nature, all that hard work for your UT degree might be for naught.
Posted on 1/24/10 at 12:24 pm to GhostofJackson
quote:
Is it an 3.0 English degree from UT up against a 3.3 Petroleum Engineering degree? FFS, the world doesn't work like half the people on this thread make it out to work.
I would guess that people who hold these respective degrees likely would not be applicants for the same job.
If they were, one applicant would likely be grossly underqualified and, thus, the source of the degree would not matter.
quote:
And rubbing elbows trumps almost any degree.
Yes, in Louisiana cronyism and nepotism rule. It doesn't work like that everywhere. Louisiana is fricked up.
This post was edited on 1/24/10 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 1/24/10 at 12:34 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Yes, in Louisiana cronyism and nepotism rule. It doesn't work like that everywhere. Louisiana is fricked up.
Good thing we live here. Rising to the top ain't that hard! Enjoy Texas! Isn't your governor succeeding y'all from the union soon?
Posted on 1/24/10 at 12:46 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
If you were an employer and you had two applicants going for the same job, both with the same type of degree and the same number of years experience in my field....
Only one had a degree from LSU while the other had a degree from Duke or Vanderbilt or Penn or Cal Berkley....
Which one do you hire?
The one who was more impressive in the interview and who seemed to possess the best skill set for the job.
I don't think that there isn't any difference in degrees from different schools, but if your theory was true there would never be an LSU graduate working on wall street.
The quality of the university that the candidate attended would probably be a tie breaker, if all other things were equal, but I don't think it's a major factor in the original consideration when hiring someone in their mid 30's.
quote:
Its a no-brainer. You hire the guy who went to the better school....all other things being equal.
That is the key phrase. How often, in reality are all other things equal?
quote:
If I'm going up against an LSU grad with my UT degree, I feel pretty damn confident that I'm the better applicant.
May be true, but you are the better applicant because of your natural aptitude and experience, not the piece of paper framed in your office.
All that said, I'm not a homer about LSU's educational system and I do hold a very high level of respect for the top universities and their academics. I wish I would have had the opportunity to go to a top notch school for free and I would have jumped on it. My original assertion was that the main reason that students from the top schools succeed is that they are the best of the best and were pre destined for success any way. If you stick an average student in an amazing program, you will have an average graduate. That graduate will do average work and will not command anything above an average salary.
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