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Started By
Message
re: 24 All-SEC selections on 1st/2nd team offense
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:16 pm to Rickdaddy4188
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:16 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
In the 2nd half against Southeastern we had... 63 yards of offense 3 1st downs
Thats not talent.
2nd half against La tech we had.... 158 yards of offense
Thats not talent.
Before the a&m game we were 104th in offense.
Thats not talent.
That's hard to argue. Ok so it is coaching AND talent.
0
Posted on 12/3/18 at 10:20 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
I'm certainly not in love with Ensminger one bit, but it's hard to also have a decent offense when almost literally everyone on it plays mediocre to bad.
You're exactly right here. The offense as a whole has performed very poorly all year with the OL unit grading out the worst. The offensive personnel isn't talent deficient with bad players, it's more aligned to talented players that have played very poorly.
Missed assignments, bad communication, bad conditioning, poor technique and poor effort has plagued this offense all season (especially the OL).
Orgeron and his offensive staff did a poor job evaluating the players and designing an offensive scheme that suits them best. We heard all off season from Orgeron that Ensminger was designing a new offense to utilize LSU's play makers which were mainly its big athletic WR's. The WR's struggled in this scheme as well and routes, drops and blocking were issues all season.
The overall offensive scheme designed by Ensminger and Orgeron was ineffective and just plain bad.... Simple as that.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 12:35 am to thunderbird1100
bullshite for anybody saying it's because we don't have the players.
Oklahoma coaches could have taken this same talent during the entire time Enminger was OC (including off-season), and made a highly respectable unit. You think Oklahoma is running around with a bunch of 5 stars and high 4 stars on the offense?
Kentucky had 2 on first team and Vandy had 3 on second team.
Oklahoma coaches could have taken this same talent during the entire time Enminger was OC (including off-season), and made a highly respectable unit. You think Oklahoma is running around with a bunch of 5 stars and high 4 stars on the offense?
Kentucky had 2 on first team and Vandy had 3 on second team.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 1:40 am to Datbayoubengal
Arky had 1. UTenn had none. Both were able to break ice vs Bama.
If you swapped our players with OU's, my guess is they would probably reach about 90% of what they currently produce and OU's players in our scheme would do slightly better.
If you swapped our players with OU's, my guess is they would probably reach about 90% of what they currently produce and OU's players in our scheme would do slightly better.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 2:04 am to Rickdaddy4188
O seemed to pull back and not want to beat the in-state schools bad and I have a problem with that mindset. You are paid to field a championship team and how can you do that unless you hammer the chumps on your schedule and give your 2/3 deep players valuable experience. That's how you build valuable depth(in game experience) in case of spelling tired starters without much drop off, injuries,early entry into the draft and transfers. It's called killer instinct and if he had some in the aTm game he'd have a ten win season wrapped up already.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 7:18 am to Macavity92
quote:
ESPN had hom in their top ten in the country. Is there a definition of highly rated I am not aware of? And to the other poster who claimed that other programs pull in 2 Brennans a year —- really? 2 top 10 QBs? Every year? Math is not with you.
Again, if your best example of elite offensive talent is a QB whose only SEC offers are LSU, Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Vandy then it’s obvious why we have no All-SEC talent.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:05 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
we simply had no elite players on this offense
One could argue that due to an inept OC the play makers that are on the LSU Offense were held back from showcasing their true abilities. Or you could make the same argument as the one above, just remove "OC" and replace with any of the following: QB, OL, HC or any combination of the 4?
LSU has consistently recruited top 10-15 at worst classes that are full of 4-5 star skill position players. LSU does not lack "Elite" players or prospects. The talent and potential is certainly there but will it be coached up enough to show up on game day?
If the Offense does not vastly improve next season how long will CEO stick with Ensminger?
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:09 am to doubleb
quote:
Since nobody got much out of them, I'm suggesting they were incorrectly graded, and our coaches mis-evaluated.
Fwiw, this happens a lot. For instance review how many QBs Bama has missed since 2010. It's a lot.
The star system isn't close to perfect.
My point is when you're constantly bringing in 4* prospects that don't pan out, the star system isn't the only thing that's flawed.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:25 am to RB10
quote:
Coaches miss on evaluations every single year. The question wasn't "how good have our QBs been" it was "how many elite QBs has LSU signed".
If you can't get production out of the players that I listed, maybe it's you and not them.
Well I kind of pointed out 5 of them transferred from here and all sucked. So it clearly wasn't just coaching with them. They just weren't any good:
Randall transferred and sucked after here
Rettig transferred and sucked after here
Jennings transferred and sucked after here
Harris transferred and sucked after here
Narcisse transferred and sucked after here
Mett we obviously got 1 good year out of. Brennan is TBD.
Those 5 above guys though were all just missed evals it appears.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:28 am to RB10
quote:
My point is when you're constantly bringing in 4* prospects that don't pan out, the star system isn't the only thing that's flawed.
Not really when you consider the numbers. There are probably over 300 players that carry 4* ratings or above each year. There are 32 NFL teams that have 7 rounds of draft picks each year totaling 224 picks (not including some compensatory picks). So being a 4* player certainly doesn’t guarantee being even a 7th round pick - hardly elite.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:48 am to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Our oline isnt any less talented than the last regime and we almost always had a good line under Miles.
IMO we will never have enough blue chip olinemen to run Ensminger's offense.
He runs dinosaur offense and refuses to change up his playcalling depending upon which part of the offense is being slowed down.
If our oline is struggling.......
He never moves the pocket.
He repeatedly puts burrow under center
He repeatedly goes in max protect giving the qb all of 2 passing options.
In the 2nd half against Southeastern we had...
63 yards of offense
3 1st downs
Thats not talent.
2nd half against La tech we had....
158 yards of offense
Thats not talent.
Before the a&m game we were 104th in offense.
Thats not talent.
Imo anyway
Your issue seems to be you think we are great everywhere, when clearly we're not. To think it's ONLY a coaching issue is simply being blind to the obvious. When your receivers are dropping 6 passes in 1 half of a game, that's a people problem. When your RT literally cant block anyone on pass down, that's a people problem. When we lose our #2 and #3 TEs for the entire season and we want to be a 2 TE set team a good bit, that's a people problem. When we just cant break some big runs in the running game due to not as great RBs, that;s a people problem.
Don't get me wrong, once again, coaching issues galore out there needing to be addressed, but if we get the same kind of personnel performance next year at a number of offensive positions, it doesnt matter who is coaching them, if you cant block guys, cant ever break big runs plays and cant consistently catch passes, those same personnel problems will persist.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:52 am to OPTIMAX CAT
quote:
You're exactly right here. The offense as a whole has performed very poorly all year with the OL unit grading out the worst. The offensive personnel isn't talent deficient with bad players, it's more aligned to talented players that have played very poorly.
Pretty much this, we know we have some talent, the problem is placing it where it needs to be and in some cases injuries really hurting us (like TE).
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:55 am to thunderbird1100
Mark these words: Joe Burrow will be all-SEC QB next year (2nd team or honorable mention - after Tua).
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:57 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
Really goes to show how we simply had no elite players on this offense at all this season.
Truth
Posted on 12/4/18 at 10:01 am to RightWingTiger
quote:
One could argue that due to an inept OC the play makers that are on the LSU Offense were held back from showcasing their true abilities. Or you could make the same argument as the one above, just remove "OC" and replace with any of the following: QB, OL, HC or any combination of the 4?
LSU has consistently recruited top 10-15 at worst classes that are full of 4-5 star skill position players. LSU does not lack "Elite" players or prospects. The talent and potential is certainly there but will it be coached up enough to show up on game day?
If the Offense does not vastly improve next season how long will CEO stick with Ensminger?
The highest graded player on our offense this year per PFF was Joe Burrow when I use average weighted grades from all games. Think about that.
Burrow is a good solid player but I think most of us would say he's certainly not the most talented player overall on our offense. This points to a lot of of the talented guys, simply not performing. It's a combination of coaching and them just not playing up to snuff.
The only player on offense who SHOWED they could be on the elite level was probably Jefferson this year, but at the rate he would drop passes at times, it held him back. Now, getting the very good production we have out of a 3-star certainly could be argued, but again, he just didnt quite get there with some quirks to work out still. CEH and Brossette simply arent Guice/Fournette level. We have some young talented receivers, but they just didnt honestly show up all year, which was frustrating.
The OL is a whole different issue. Dealt with a starting OG returning being suspended and out the whole year. Then Charles missed a handful of games, Deculus obviously cant play RT and they tried a few different combos out there to no better avail. We just have some people problems on the OL, and certainly some blame on Cregg as well, but when your RT keeps getting beat like a rented mule, and you've tried a handful of other things...not sure what else you do other than find a better one next year. Cant stress enough when you lose the battle in the trenches, and we did that OFTEN this year, it's going to make the whole offense a whole lot harder to gel and flow. When you combine that with inconsistent WRs and RBs who cant break a few big ones open for you, well, you get the offense we got.
This post was edited on 12/4/18 at 10:02 am
Posted on 12/4/18 at 10:01 am to thunderbird1100
“ it doesn’t matter who is coaching them”
It always matters who is coaching them.
It always matters who is coaching them.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 10:04 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
“ it doesn’t matter who is coaching them”
It always matters who is coaching them.
You missed the entire point there, when they are physically incapable of performing, like say Deculus at RT, no, it doesn't matter who is coaching them. They simply wont do well because they are incapable of playing well in that spot.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 10:52 am to thunderbird1100
9-3 was a miracle with this offense. Four and five star players everywhere, same as previous years... There seems to be a running theme though... Something about coaches...
Posted on 12/4/18 at 11:34 am to The First Cut
quote:
So being a 4* player certainly doesn’t guarantee being even a 7th round pick - hardly elite.
Never once did I suggest being a 4* player is elite. However, there is a wide variety of production between elite and sucks. The fact that LSU has consistently fallen on the sucks end with 4* quarterbacks tells me it's not just a talent or recruiting ranking problem.
It's a scouting and development problem as well.
Posted on 12/4/18 at 3:38 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Your issue seems to be you think we are great everywhere, when clearly we're not. To think it's ONLY a coaching issue is simply being blind to the obvious.
We are vastly more talented than southeastern at every position.
Thats not a talent issue.
quote:
When your receivers are dropping 6 passes in 1 half of a game, that's a people problem.
Yeah because execution isnt a direct reflection of coaching.
quote:
When your RT literally cant block anyone on pass down, that's a people problem
We sure didnt have trouble blocking Georgia.
The georgia game throws a huge wrench in the ,"its a talent issue".
There are dozens of teams that would kill for our RT and they field a competent RT.
quote:
if you cant block guys, cant ever break big runs plays and cant consistently catch passes, those same personnel problems will persist.
Bruh, youre not football ignorant.
You know damn well that good coaches can cover up weaknesses, even oline weaknesses.
Why didnt Ensminger call plays to help his oline? We played 12 games so far and our OC didnt call a single roll out. In 12 games we didnt chnage the launch point once. In 12 games this offense still cant run a screen play.
You mentioned our run game not being great. Then why on earth are we putting our qb under center and then going playaction, with a shaky oline?
If all we did was struggle against good defenses i could see merit in your stance. WE STRUGGLED AGAINST SOUTHEASTERN. We are infinitely more talented than them at every position.
quote:
it doesnt matter who is coaching them, if you cant block guys, cant ever break big runs plays and cant consistently catch passes, those same personnel problems will persist.
Wow.
You know we could coach fundamentals( footwork and handplacement) to help our oline.
You could call more single back running plays instead of running out of traditional heavy formations.
Its amazing how all of the sudden the lack of offensive production isnt a reflection of coaching when that been the mantra for over a decade.
This post was edited on 12/4/18 at 3:44 pm
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