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re: Coaching record debate
Posted on 11/18/09 at 11:03 am to byubengalboy
Posted on 11/18/09 at 11:03 am to byubengalboy
quote:FWIW, I agree completely with you. My arguments about Miles have nothing to do with Saban, they have everything to do with wanting a better coach. Miles can be that better coach, but he has to change, and so far he appears to be unwilling to do that.
One thing none of you Sabanistas has ever had the courage to admit is that we would not be having this never ending Saban-Miles debate if Saban hadn't fricked LSU and each and every LSU fan in the arse...and then walked away laughing. Get the frick over Saban...
1
Posted on 11/18/09 at 11:04 am to tigerbait2
quote:
would he have been as successful as saban was in turning this thing around?
doesn't matter. he wasn't hired to turn it around.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 11:16 am to Lee Chatelain
quote:
Explain the 90's then
Bad coaching is bad coaching...it doesn't matter how big the program is (see Faust, Davey, RR, Zook, Shula, whoever was at USC pre-PC). My point is that these guys (Miles and Saban) couldn't have this level of success just anywhere (see Michigan State and Ok State). That's why I cringe when people say "Saban's players" or "Miles players". They are LSU's players.
So if Miles leaves, the program isn't doomed anymore that it was when Saban left.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 11:53 am to tigerbait2
quote:
What miles has done has been enormous but would he have been as successful as saban was in turning this thing around? Maybe maybe not
Does it really matter?
Nick did what Nick did and Les has done what Les has done. We, LSU fans, should be thankful for the results both achieved while here and forget bout trying to compare the two.
Some LSU fans are so worried bout tomorrow that they can't enjoy today. I feel bad for them cause they are allowing things they have no control over to prevent them from fully enjoying a fairly neat season and an overall great time to be a Tiger fan, but each to our own.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:34 pm to Lonnie4LSU
I give Saban credit for changing the culture. I do not adhere to the myth of Saban having to re-load the roster...
Changing a culture is no small thing either. I think Saban is probably uniquely gifted in this regard because of his intensity, focus and attention to detail. I have heard that he is a bit of a control freak (have no idea if that is really true) and that would help redirect a culture...
Changing a culture is no small thing either. I think Saban is probably uniquely gifted in this regard because of his intensity, focus and attention to detail. I have heard that he is a bit of a control freak (have no idea if that is really true) and that would help redirect a culture...
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:41 pm to tigerbait2
quote:
Saban had to rebuild and change a culture
Which year do you count then as Saban's 1st after "righting" the ship?
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:49 pm to klrstix
quote:
I give Saban credit for changing the culture
I have no problem with Nick's effort on behalf of the Tigers and I thank him for those efforts, but the real key to our success since 2000 was the powers that be willingness to finally open the LSU check book to bring in top line coaching. imo
The big 3 sports at LSU might, over all, have the best coaching we have ever seen. Now, I know the jury is still out on that, but I believe we have signs which might point out that statement as being true.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:56 pm to tigerbait2
quote:
quote]Holy crap - how can you follow that statement with a BUT, unless you're a complete BUTT-HOLE? In that one statement, you have subconsciously made your point - no matter what Miles does, you will always hate him. Time for you to move on to a new team.[/quote
Man I don't hate a damn cfb coach. What are u 12?
I will pull for lsu if Castro gets the job. It's just my humble regular Joe opinion on miles. I hope he proves me wrong and wins 10-11 games every year. I would be happy to say hey I was wrong about this guy
only 10 or 11 games per yr? why not 12?
Hell,Saban had a 3 loss season after NC year including a bowl loss to Iowa.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 12:57 pm to Eye Heart Number 4
quote:so if somebody does not like the president, does that mean he doesn't like this country & has to move to france?
no matter what Miles does, you will always hate him. Time for you to move on to a new team
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:17 pm to mstiger
quote:
If you can't compare records and win percentages what can you compare?
mancrushes
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:32 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
they have everything to do with wanting a better coach.
Lets see....Coach Miles still has a chance of finishing in the top 10 4 out of his 5 yrs here and already has the best 5 yr winning % in school history, but you think he needs to change and start doing things as you advise...that bout it?
I have only one question....might I have some of what your are smoking cause sometimes I would like to lose touch with reality as well.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:42 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Nick did what Nick did and Les has done what Les has done. We, LSU fans, should be thankful for the results both achieved while here and forget bout trying to compare the two.
I totally agree. Nick Saban and Les Miles have different styles, but have both achieved similar results:
Saban------48-16 overall (28-12 SEC) in 5 years, with 1 BCS NC.
Miles--------50-13 overall (26-12 SEC) in his 5th year with 3 games to go (2 SEC games and a bowl) and 1 BCS NC.
I have seen many coaches who were successful with the intense, fire-breathing, disciplinarian approach Nick Saban seems to prefer. I have also seen coaches who were sucessful with the optimistic, "rah-rah", supportive father-figure style that Les Miles seems to prefer. I've also seen coaches fail miserably with each approach. In the end, every coach has to be himself and do it the way he feels more comfortable.
But this isn't really about Nick Saban or Les Miles. It's more about us as Tiger fans. We say we judge a player's charachter by how he deals with and responds to adversity. But what do we do when our Tigers have a down year? (And as someone who lived through the Stovall, Hallman and DiNardo years, let me say that 8-5 with anice bowl win is pretty good for a "down year".) Many of us seem to go into apoplectic meltdown and trash the coach mercilessly. If the players gave up on themselves and their coaches as easily as some "fans" do, they'd never rebound from adversity.
Les Miles deserves the chance to show that he can make the team better. He showed loyalty to LSU when he turned down the Michigan job and the players rewarded him, and us, with a National Championship. It's time we returned the favor and showed him a little loyalty, and maybe even a little bit of decency.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 1:48 pm to kgcTigerFan
quote:
It's time we returned the favor and showed him a little loyalty, and maybe even a little bit of decency.
+10000000000000000000000000000000
Noone could have said it better!
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:01 pm to tigerbait2
Let me post this so it's there for everyone to see.
Currently, Miles' record at LSU is:
Overall: 50-13 (79%)
Conference: 27-13 (68%)
Out of Conf: 23-0
SEC CG: 1-1
Bowls (incl in OOC rec): 4-0
That being said this is a results oriented method of analysis meaning it's futile in predicting the future.
If you want to support Miles for his record, go ahead.
If you want to blast Miles for losing 1/3 of his conference games, go ahead.
IMO, it doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles.
Currently, Miles' record at LSU is:
Overall: 50-13 (79%)
Conference: 27-13 (68%)
Out of Conf: 23-0
SEC CG: 1-1
Bowls (incl in OOC rec): 4-0
That being said this is a results oriented method of analysis meaning it's futile in predicting the future.
If you want to support Miles for his record, go ahead.
If you want to blast Miles for losing 1/3 of his conference games, go ahead.
IMO, it doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:08 pm to kgcTigerFan
quote:
It's time we returned the favor and showed him a little loyalty, and maybe even a little bit of decency.
Amen!!!!
Each to our own, but knocking/slamming/trashing a coach who has done nothing but win year in and year out and some wins being as big as they come, is not a path this Tiger fan will ever follow.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:25 pm to Trender
quote:
it doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles
It doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much worse than Miles either.
I attended LSU from 1973-1979 (undergrad and law school). We had a coach by the name of Charlie McClendon. Maybe you've heard of him. Despite being LSU's all time winningest coach, he couldn't seem to beat Alabama and a certain Bear Bryant. Never mind that he did it better than any other SEC coaches at the time, the "Help Mac Pack" brigade was on his arse for his last several years. They were absolutely certain that LSU could get a much better coach.
What followed was about 20 years of general football futility with the aforementioned Jerry Stovall, Curley Hallman and Gerry DiNardo, briefly interrupted by a few "glory years" of Bill Arnsparger/Mike Archer. Nick Saban was brought in to fix the program that had deteriorated under these coaches who were supposed to be better than Mac.
Don't tell me we need to replace Les Miles as coach until you can offer some suggestion as to who you would replace him with. What "better" coach do you have in mind? And what makes you think he would want to come to a place where he will be vilified if he doesn't produce SEC and national championships every year?
By the way, Saban's SEC record at LSU, which you didn't post, was 28-12 (virtually identical to Miles) and his bowl record was 3-2.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:32 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Each to our own, but knocking/slamming/trashing a coach who has done nothing but win year in and year out and some wins being as big as they come, is not a path this Tiger fan will ever follow.
not sure I have ever bashed or slammed miles either. Question yes. Since the theme is around miles/saban, I just ask this- which one do u honestly think other coaches would rather have to gameplan and prepare for? IMO other sec coaches would rather play miles than saban
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:33 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:His record looks good, but do his teams? We have the 107th ranked offense in the country. Spin that. We have poor focus on the field, bad game plans, poor mental preparation, and a coach who talks and acts like he is clueless in public forums. Is that a good representation of our program? You're debating the results, I'm debating the process. We will never agree.
Lets see....Coach Miles still has a chance of finishing in the top 10 4 out of his 5 yrs here and already has the best 5 yr winning % in school history,
quote:Not as I advise, but as about 70,000 people watching last week's game advise. Are they all wrong and idiots too just because they don't agree like you do that Miles is the god of all coaches?
but you think he needs to change and start doing things as you advise...that bout it?
quote:I quite smoking weed 10 years ago but I can direct you to a few friends who can hook you up.
I have only one question....might I have some of what your are smoking
quote:You are already out of touch, you don't need my help. You can't see the trees for the forest, don't understand nuance, and are focused only on what you can see directly in front of you.
I would like to lose touch with reality as well.
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:34 pm to Eye Heart Number 4
quote:you said butt-hole
BUTT-HOLE
Posted on 11/18/09 at 2:38 pm to Trender
quote:
it doesn't take much observation, reason, analysis to know that LSU could do much better than Miles
Much???
How does one get "much" better than:
quote:
Overall: 50-13 (79%)
Conference: 27-13 (68%)
Out of Conf: 23-0
SEC CG: 1-1
Bowls (incl in OOC rec): 4-0
Did you list 1-0 in BCS Title games?
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