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Message
re: "Game Managers" Do Not Win Championships
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:54 pm to Chicken
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:54 pm to Chicken
quote:
are you discounting the notion that the game manager could have some great weapons are his disposal, and a good offensive line?
Possibly, but the biggest two things he is discounting are:
1. There will never be a consensus on "game manager" and "play maker", and
2. How many posters here know he's a total moron.
0
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:54 pm to LSURulzSEC
quote:
If I see where you are going with this correctly you are referring to a game manager qb as one that you can't even depend on to make any play when needed unlike Flynn and Mauck you could go to them from time to time and the game on the line to make a big play for you...if that is the case I agree even though I do believe they were both good game managers as well...
Fair enough. Maybe we should define "game manager." I consider it someone who is basically just in there to hand-off and throw short passes. Just try not to turn the ball over and let the skill position guys do the rest. I just think that in today's CFB, there are going to be times throughout the season where the QB is going to have to put the game on his shoulders and make big plays. Whether it's scrambling for a big 1st down, or threading the needle on 3rd and 15 to pick up a much needed 1st down in the 4th quarter.
And this topic pisses me off a little, because I think our fans constantly referring to Mauck and Flynn as just "game managers" does them a disservice. I also think it's insulting to Jefferson to have such low expectations of him.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:57 pm to Hot Carl
Well, it sounds like a personal issue. No one is forcing you to have such a limited definition of game manager.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:57 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Mauck and Flynn as just "game managers" does them a disservice.
I don't think they care as long as the ring says Champion
quote:
I also think it's insulting to Jefferson to have such low expectations of him.
Why is it a low expectation to expect JJ to get the ball to playmakers and let them make plays? I seriously doubt JJ thinks he has to win games by himself, which is a "playmaker" right?
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:58 pm to Chicken
quote:
so game managers aren't capable of making big plays or having a good TD to INT ratio?
No. In that case, they are closer to being a playmaker.
quote:
are you discounting the notion that the game manager could have some great weapons at his disposal, and a good offensive line?
Regardless of talent, you still have to consistently get the ball into the hands of that talent. Great talent alone does not get you 28 touchdowns through the air.
A game manager is not the focal point of an offense at all. John Parker Wilson and Kreg Krenzel are game managers. They hand the ball off and attempt to convert third downs when necessary. That's why their stats were so low, because they are merely there to manage the offense.
Jamarcus = Focal point
Mauck/Flynn = 50/50
JPW/Krenzel = Rarely focal point
This post was edited on 9/22/09 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 9/22/09 at 1:59 pm to Chicken
quote:
so game managers aren't capable of making big plays or having a good TD to INT ratio?
I agree that you can be both a playmaker and a good game manager, but I think with the way the term is used on here, it seems to be one or the other. I am strictly talking about the people who seem to think Jefferson's only goal should be to not throw interceptions. Not throwing interceptions is great, but for us to win anything substantial, he is going to have to make plays. That is just a fact. Like I said before the season started, throwing a pick or 2 is not the end of the world. As long as it's in between the 20s. I'd rather him do that if it meant that we could actually pass the ball down the field.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:00 pm to Chicken
Actually, Flynn could beat you down the field wioth his arm and legs, Mauck on the other hand was a True "Game Manager" for sure.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:02 pm to KLSU
quote:
Mauck on the other hand was a True "Game Manager" for sure.
If that's all he was, he was a terrible one, because he threw 14 interceptions.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:03 pm to AlexLSU
quote:JPW is one of Bama's all time leading passers.
John Parker Wilson and Kreg Krenzel are game managers. They hand the ball off and attempt to convert third downs when necessary. That's why their stats were so low, because they are merely there to manage the offense.
A two-year starter at quarterback who has become one of the most prolific passers in school history ... an accurate passer with mobility and composure ... has shown the ability to shine in late-game situations, with several game-winning and game-tying fourth-quarter drives in his career ... has 16 career 200-yard passing games, setting the all-time career mark at UA ... also among the Alabama career leaders in pass attempts, completions, passing yardage, touchdown passes and all-purpose yards
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:04 pm to Hot Carl
Hot Carl You are right for the NFL, but most National Championships in college are won by QBs that manage the game and don't lose the game. Almost all Championship teams have a JR. or SR. QB no FR or Sophs. I think OKL in the 1970s had a Freshman QB, it almost never happens. That is why our chance to win will be the next 2 years.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:05 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
They hand the ball off and attempt to convert third downs when necessary.
That is the key to a game manager IMO. One who is usually limited to making a play downfield to 3rd downs. The run to pass ratio on 1st and 2nd would be much higher for a true "game manager".
LSU typically didn't limit the playbook on 1st and 2nd down with Mauck and Flynn, which means that the offense was running through them, not that they were simply "managing the game" based on down and distance.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:05 pm to Hot Carl
quote:Jefferson is a much better athlete, so I doubt that for his entire career he will only be allowed to throw short passes and never run the ball much. This is only his 5th career start, for christs sakes.
And this topic pisses me off a little, because I think our fans constantly referring to Mauck and Flynn as just "game managers" does them a disservice. I also think it's insulting to Jefferson to have such low expectations of him.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:06 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
JPW is one of Bama's all time leading passers.
You make a good point. Maybe we jumped the gun on labeling JPW just a game manager. However, Alabama doesn't have a history of statistically great QBs--they've always been a run-1st team, so being one of their all-time leading passers might not be saying that much.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:07 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
JPW is one of Bama's all time leading passers.
A two-year starter at quarterback who has become one of the most prolific passers in school history ... an accurate passer with mobility and composure ... has shown the ability to shine in late-game situations, with several game-winning and game-tying fourth-quarter drives in his career ... has 16 career 200-yard passing games, setting the all-time career mark at UA ... also among the Alabama career leaders in pass attempts, completions, passing yardage, touchdown passes and all-purpose yards
Not many QBs in Alabama history started for 3 full seasons.
Also, JPW had 2200 yards, 9 TDs and 7 INTs as a senior. Furthermore, he threw for a mere 4 TDs in all SEC games (including the SECCG) last season. Hardly a playmaker in that offense.
This post was edited on 9/22/09 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:08 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Jefferson is a much better athlete, so I doubt that for his entire career he will only be allowed to throw short passes and never run the ball much. This is only his 5th career start, for christs sakes.
Like I said, I have no doubt that he will eventually be a great QB and playmaker. I just hope it's in time for us to compete for the SEC this year.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:08 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Haven't been too many SEC champs with just a "game manager" at QB the last 20 years either. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.
quote:
Jay Barker...
quote:
not the last 10 years
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:09 pm to Teacher
quote:
Hot Carl You are right for the NFL, but most National Championships in college are won by QBs that manage the game and don't lose the game
In the last 10 years, I can only think of 1(Krenzel) true game manager in college who won the NC.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:12 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Jefferson is a much better athlete
I don't see JJ as being much differently athletically than Flynn or Mauck...
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:16 pm to Hot Carl
Game managers win championships.
Playmakers make Sportscenter.
Playmakers make Sportscenter.
Posted on 9/22/09 at 2:16 pm to Teacher
As I read through this thread, I consider "taking what the defense gives you" someone who "manages games". Clearly does not mean you won't have to make key throws or runs as a QB to keep drives going...that is part of what any QB has to do...however the alternative is not the extreme of Farve or Cutler...Enter Chris Leak, got the ball to playmakers who racked up RAC, padding stats. JJ reminds me of Leak. With the talent around him, he can be as successful(provided we decide to block up front) 
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