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re: What are your goals for the basketball program?
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:23 pm to Topwater Trout
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:23 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
if you think athletes don't improve with experience there is no hope for you.
I never once made the argument that players cant get better with experience, you're the one making the argument Wade developed nobody here and you cant back it up. You cant literally say the big handful of players to play better here over time or against their last stop as "well, players just always do that".
Eason MASSIVELY improved, not just a little.
KBW was already junior at Oregon and did barely anything, when he came here he was a key piece on a SEC Championship team. this wasn't some freshman to sophomore jump he had. He was a 5th year senior by the time he played at LSU.
Sorry if you cant accept the fact Wade and his staff probably had a positive impact among a number of the players here, but that's reality. We wouldnt be any good at all if no one ever got coached up. Also, the measure for someone getting coached up is not limited to your fantasy of needed to be some talentless 2-star or walk on and became great.
Wade recruits very well here, very good/talented players can get coaching and improve from it. Not every 4 or 5 star just comes in ready to go.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:28 pm
1
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:27 pm to thunderbird1100
Naz Reid and Tremont Waters freshman seasons at LSU outperformed a lot of freshman ranked much higher than they were. Marlon Taylor, Skylar Mays, KVB, Brandon Murray, Tari Eason all performed way above projection as soon as they developed under Wade. Again in the time Wade’s been at LSU he’s recruited 5 NBA players, Kentucky has had 17 in that span. People who think Wade is wasting talent have no idea what they’re talking about.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:35 pm to Solo Cam
I think it’s important to put finances in perspective . With that, I want lsu relevant in at least football, baseball, basketball, and track and field and/or volleyball. There are other combos but football, baseball and basketball are musts. With this combo at top levels, LSU can make an aweful lot of money.
Basketball can be a big moneymaker so I’m fine paying to get there.
So for basketball, we will need to hire a highly paid coach To get to a point where we win the sec on a consistent basis, and have “relevance within the ncaa tourny “we will need to pay north of $4.5 mil salary which is a great deal more than Wade makes. I’m fine with paying Wade more but he has not proven to be worth that much.
Now to define “relevance within the ncaa tourney” it comes down to how far we advance. I want a program that gets to the 8 at least every 2 years and wins it at least every 4. Ambitious but Not crazy.
Getting to final 4 every 4 years means championship capability. I want that. Not every year. Not every 2 years. Maybe every 4 years.
That’s what I want but the trick is figuring out what it takes to pack the house every game through the season. That might be less than that I want.
But if we can accomplish what I want, I’m very certain that Fans will pack the arena and life will be good.
Basketball can be a big moneymaker so I’m fine paying to get there.
So for basketball, we will need to hire a highly paid coach To get to a point where we win the sec on a consistent basis, and have “relevance within the ncaa tourny “we will need to pay north of $4.5 mil salary which is a great deal more than Wade makes. I’m fine with paying Wade more but he has not proven to be worth that much.
Now to define “relevance within the ncaa tourney” it comes down to how far we advance. I want a program that gets to the 8 at least every 2 years and wins it at least every 4. Ambitious but Not crazy.
Getting to final 4 every 4 years means championship capability. I want that. Not every year. Not every 2 years. Maybe every 4 years.
That’s what I want but the trick is figuring out what it takes to pack the house every game through the season. That might be less than that I want.
But if we can accomplish what I want, I’m very certain that Fans will pack the arena and life will be good.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 7:31 am
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:38 pm to Solo Cam
If Wade is still here 5 years from now, men's basketball will clearly be #2 at LSU. Wait and see.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:40 pm to SlidellCajun
The problem is that’s not possible if you’re changing coaches every 5 years especially if you fire one off to the best start in program history. Who would you want to hire? We can’t get Jay Wright or Cal or Drew or Self or Few so what you want has to be built up to. It’s not football, we haven’t been a top 5 program for 20 years so you can’t steal a great coach from a much better program.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:42 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
I’m fine with paying Wade more but he has not proven to be worth that much.
Other than the fact you threw out a ridiculously high number that would make whoever gets the next contract one of the highest paid coaches in the country (easily Top 10), it baffles me people are still upset with what Wade has done and has done it extremely cheaply by comparison. I mean FFS, Cuonzo Martin and Tom Crean makes more than Wade does.
Also...
quote:
Now to define “relevance within the ncaa tourney” it comes down to how far we advance. I want a program that gets to the 8 at least every 2 years and wins it at least every 4. Not crazy.
Getting to final 4 every 4 years means championship capability.
There are blue bloods who dont even do this
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:44 pm to SlidellCajun
What would you consider a consistent basis?
Just for reference, regular season champs over the last 20 years:
Kentucky has won it 7 times.
Florida has won it 4 times.
LSU has won it 3 times.
Alabama has won it 2 times.
Tennessee has won it 2 times.
Auburn has won it 1 time. (2 with this year)
M State has won it 1 time.
A&M has won it 1 time.
Just for reference, regular season champs over the last 20 years:
Kentucky has won it 7 times.
Florida has won it 4 times.
LSU has won it 3 times.
Alabama has won it 2 times.
Tennessee has won it 2 times.
Auburn has won it 1 time. (2 with this year)
M State has won it 1 time.
A&M has won it 1 time.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:47 pm to SlidellCajun
First you say this:
Then you say this, when wade as done ALL the things you claim a coach should do.
How do you even put your own pants on in the morning, I guess Im assuming too much, someone probably helps you with your pants.
quote:
So for basketball, we will need to hire a highly paid coach To get to a point where we win the sec on a consistent basis, and have “relevance within the ncaa tourny
Then you say this, when wade as done ALL the things you claim a coach should do.
quote:
I’m fine with paying Wade more but he has not proven to be worth that much.
How do you even put your own pants on in the morning, I guess Im assuming too much, someone probably helps you with your pants.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:48 pm to thunderbird1100
This is the ignorance of the new bandwagon basketball fan. We have 2 other schools right here in the SEC who’ve tried what he’s suggesting. Miss St. and UGA have tried hiring a name brand coach to resurrect middling to lower SEC programs and it’s failed miserably compared to what Wade has done. These people just have no grasp of college basketball, they think LSU basketball is LSU football and there’s just Nick Sabans growing on trees who can turn us into a top 3 school in 4 years.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:50 pm to Madking
quote:
This is the ignorance of the new bandwagon basketball fan. We have 2 other schools right here in the SEC who’ve tried what he’s suggesting. Miss St. and UGA have tried hiring a name brand coach to resurrect middling to lower SEC programs and it’s failed miserably compared to what Wade has done. These people just have no grasp of college basketball, they think LSU basketball is LSU football and there’s just Nick Sabans growing on trees who can turn us into a top 3 school in 4 years.
Hey man, 6 tournament appearances the prior 24 years to Wade but 4 tournament teams the last 4 years under him just isn't good enough, we should do better!
You just KNOW these fans weren't around when we were starting a tuba player at center, all those Eddie Ludwig years or when we finished last place in the conference.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 1:55 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
. I’m fine with paying Wade more but he has not proven to be worth that much.
He's a top 30 coach IMO, but he needs to be consistent and win something before being anointed with top tier pay.
Next year is his to prove he can or not. He's had a top ten recruiting class the past two years, so this group isn't without talent.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 3/4/22 at 2:07 pm to thunderbird1100
That’s why they can’t understand why people are excited. They didn’t witness the endless trash we’ve watched for the last 20 years. All they know is we got to a final 4 so they think that was the norm.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 2:12 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
You just KNOW these fans weren't around when we were starting a tuba player at center, all those Eddie Ludwig years or when we finished last place in the conference.
I don't think anyone disagrees with Wade as one hell of a recruiter. He's one of the best there is.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 2:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He's a top 30 coach IMO, but he needs to be consistent and win something before being anointed with top tier pay
I don't disagree. But assuming LSU feels confident there won't be any NCAA sanctions, I think they need to do what they have to do to keep Wade...even if that means putting a poison pill in the contract to cut ties with Wade should significant sanctions come down. Kansas is still under investigation. Yet, they signed Bill Self to a "lifetime" contract last year. The LSU program is obviously not at Kansas's level yet. But given the 30 year period that preceded Wade which can only be described as inconsistent, AT BEST, you keep the guy around.
quote:
Next year is his to prove he can or not.
It really depends on the roster. College basketball, more than any other sport, is year to year expectations. Auburn and Kentucky had losing records last season. This year they are national championship contenders. I suspect the LSU roster is going to have some degree of turnover before next season (at least more than many are probably expecting right now). Let's wait to set expectations for next year until we know what next year looks like in terms of roster, schedule, and the strength (or weakness) of the SEC.
quote:
He's had a top ten recruiting class the past two years, so this group isn't without talent.
IMO, last season was the first time he underachieved a bit at LSU. That roster should have been 3-5 wins better than they were. It was MORE talented than this roster. People don't want to accept it, but this was probably Wade's least talented roster (individually) since his first season at LSU. Going into the season LSU had one guy (Miller) who was looked at as a potential NBA prospect. Efton Reid may have been as well because of his HS prospect rating. But I think we can all agree it became very clear he is not a serious draft prospect right now.
There was a reason LSU was picked to finish 6th (some publications had them 7th) in what was expected, and has been, a very strong SEC. And most of those projections were BEFORE Miller was lost for the season. Eason's ascension to a legitimate NBA draft prospect has been remarkable and unexpected. But, otherwise, this team doesn't have anyone playing right now who looks to be a possible draft pick.
The 12-0 start was great. Particularly the fact it came on the back of a needed and remarkable about-face defensively. But there were signs this team wasn't "complete" and that 12-0 start, in part, was because of a very favorable schedule (bitch all you want, but the data shows this is on pace to be the weakest NC SOS LSU has played in 5 years). Still, the start raised the excitement and expectation levels probably (in hindsight) higher than what they should have been before LSU even played their first SEC game. Even without the injury to Pinson, it was unlikely the team was going to keep pace with their great start as the season went along. The injury to Pinson made that impossible. So the reality is LSU has probably regressed back to the level of team they always were. It was just made harder to accept because they got off to a great start.
IMO, Wade had zero expectations in 2018. He exceeded them. He had very high expecations in 2019. He exceeded them. He had lower expectations in 2020 (relative to 2019). He met, arguably slightly exceeded those. He had high expectations last season (probably 2nd highest to 2019). He failed to quite reach those. This year's team was projected to finish 6th in the SEC and a likely 7-10 seed in the NCAAT before the season started. If LSU can get a win tomorrow that very well may be exactly where they finish. Next year is a complete unknown right now and anyone who sets expectations at this time is foolish.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 2:31 pm to thunderbird1100
Thunder, a few years back when we had that 16 game losing streak under the great Johnny Jones, I had to work until midnight the night of that 16th straight loss. I dvred the game ( everyone I know understands that when I dvr a game, we all act like there is no game, so I can still watch it "live" hours later), watched it when I got home, and rooted like hell for my tigers.
I bet less than 10% of our basketball fanbase is that committed to the Tigers. I go way back to the Macklin, Higgs Scales, Hi-c days, and will be a Tiger until my last breath.
I bet less than 10% of our basketball fanbase is that committed to the Tigers. I go way back to the Macklin, Higgs Scales, Hi-c days, and will be a Tiger until my last breath.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 2:48 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I don't think anyone disagrees with Wade as one hell of a recruiter. He's one of the best there is.
He is also a good coach (not perfect by any means) despite people continuously saying he can only recruit.
This year is the outlier for offenses under Wade, but "bad" coaches don't average the 29th most efficient offense in the country. That 29th ranking on average also includes this year's below average offense (which is 8th in the SEC and still better than 260+ teams in NCAA basketball). Previously we averaged #13 in efficiency over 4 years.
KenPom AdjO Rankings
2021-22 - #91
2020-21 - #5
2019-20 - #4
2018-19 - #12
2017-18 - #33
People also said he couldn't coach defense and his rankings seemed to bear that out. But then this season we have the #5 most efficient defense in the country.
Again, a bad coach does not go from averaging the 124th most efficient defense to #5. This year's defense alone raised the average 24 spots to #100 over 5 years and is the 2nd best defense in the SEC.
KenPom AdjD Rankings
2021-22 - #5
2020-21 - #124
2019-20 - #179
2018-19 - #59
2017-18 - #136
Again, I am not saying he is perfect before anyone accuses me of such. I do think he's a better coach than people give him credit for to go along with being a great recruiter.
Posted on 3/4/22 at 3:05 pm to Woodman
quote:Do you understand how ridiculous this statement is?
For those who suggest O made the greatest team in history and then attempt to translate the same expectations to this team, who on this basketball team is a Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, CEH, Grant Delpit, etc.? No one. Those are the types of ingredients needed to get to the final four and no amount of talent assures the luck to make the move to NCAa Basketball Champion.
Coach K had 4 first rounders including Zion and RJ Barrett snd didn't win it all.
If you don't know shite about basketball then just stfu.
Also who has ever claimed this is going to be the greatest team in college basketball history?
Posted on 3/4/22 at 3:06 pm to tigahlovah
I'm not saying it'll never be 2.
I'm saying it'll never completely dominate baseball for the 2 spot. At least not for a generation
I'm saying it'll never completely dominate baseball for the 2 spot. At least not for a generation
Posted on 3/4/22 at 3:11 pm to StAugFLTiger
quote:Do you see the dumb shite you type before you press post?
I always feel like we have the weakest coach on the bench in terms of adjustments etc
God what a fricking clown
Posted on 3/4/22 at 3:22 pm to Solo Cam
A few years ago Kentucky had
Karl Anthony-Towns
Devin Booker
Trey Lyles
Willie Cauley-Stien
And 5 other NBA players together and didn’t win it
In 2010 he had
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Eric Bledsoe
Patrick Peterson
Darius Miller
And 3 other NBA players but didn’t win it
Wade has had 1 late first round pick so far, Kentucky has had 8, Alabama and Tennessee have had 3 each, Vandy and Auburn 2 each, UGA, Florida, Arkansas and Missouri have all had 1st rounders selected higher than Cam Thomas, our only 1st round pick. Recruiting has improved in terms of quality throughout the roster but to suggest we’ve had all this wasted elite talented is completely incorrect.
Karl Anthony-Towns
Devin Booker
Trey Lyles
Willie Cauley-Stien
And 5 other NBA players together and didn’t win it
In 2010 he had
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Eric Bledsoe
Patrick Peterson
Darius Miller
And 3 other NBA players but didn’t win it
Wade has had 1 late first round pick so far, Kentucky has had 8, Alabama and Tennessee have had 3 each, Vandy and Auburn 2 each, UGA, Florida, Arkansas and Missouri have all had 1st rounders selected higher than Cam Thomas, our only 1st round pick. Recruiting has improved in terms of quality throughout the roster but to suggest we’ve had all this wasted elite talented is completely incorrect.
This post was edited on 3/4/22 at 3:27 pm
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