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re: Diving deeper on Standard Lithium?
Posted on 5/28/24 at 11:42 pm to LChama
Posted on 5/28/24 at 11:42 pm to LChama
Well, those are my concerns at least after a bit of dillegence. I'm currently in negotiations with these companies, and it's going to be a very long, drawn-out process to reach a mutually satisfactory lease agreement. The E&P's are firm on "not leaving money on the table", but doubt it's economical to extract and market the other solutes, which is bs imo. And there's ways the mineral owners could get duped on the lithium as well, i.e. if the company that produces it aren't the ones to ultimately market it/if it's disposed of in a way that doesn't generate revenue directly, but rather will be recovered on the back end, thus avoiding or reducing a royalty payout
An example would be a power company leasing and stripmining a coal field with royalties set to be paid out as a fraction of revenue generated from selling the production. But rather than marketing it, they instead burn the coal to generate electricity, which is then sold to customers/is the source of the revenue. The mineral owner receives nothing, because the coal was consumed rather than sold. There are ways around that, like a royalty based on recovery by weight x spot price with adjustments, which can easily be calculated, rather than being a portion the actual revenue, but it has to be negotiated
An example would be a power company leasing and stripmining a coal field with royalties set to be paid out as a fraction of revenue generated from selling the production. But rather than marketing it, they instead burn the coal to generate electricity, which is then sold to customers/is the source of the revenue. The mineral owner receives nothing, because the coal was consumed rather than sold. There are ways around that, like a royalty based on recovery by weight x spot price with adjustments, which can easily be calculated, rather than being a portion the actual revenue, but it has to be negotiated
0
Posted on 5/28/24 at 11:52 pm to ev247
It's actually >$100k/ton for pure metallic lithium, but apparently the only economical way to recover that is via surface mining. I'm guessing impurities become too costly to remove beyond a certain point if it's brine-sourced, similarly to how alcohol has a hard cap at 95.0% for distillation, requiring inputs/methods which aren't cost efficient to go any higher
This post was edited on 5/28/24 at 11:54 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 3:18 pm to ev247
Upcoming conferences. Feeling better about these since they will be in DC with their "strategic partners" and then presenting at another conference alongside Koch and Equinor. Assuming the off-take mention refers to 1A
Posted on 5/29/24 at 4:12 pm to ev247
This stuff is an absolute nightmare to decipher as the lack of transparency/discontinuity between prospective operators on pretty much everything(AOI/tech/methods/minerals of interest/end-user/etc) and what seems to be reluctance by the AOGC/RRC to take authority only leads to more skepticism. I should probably clarify that I've had no correspondance with anyone from SLI, and have instead relied on their press releases for intel, as my only direct communication has been with an unaffiliated private company, but that also left me with only more questions/concerns.
At this point, I'm starting to question if the smackover is even the real play. The Evergreen unit for instance is apparently using injection/supply wells, and given the smackover is just above the louann salt domes, it makes me wonder if that formation isn't the real target. Injecting groundwater into it would obviously produce highly concentrated brine, but might also lead to a ecological situation similar to what happened in Assumption Parish/Napoleonville
At this point, I'm starting to question if the smackover is even the real play. The Evergreen unit for instance is apparently using injection/supply wells, and given the smackover is just above the louann salt domes, it makes me wonder if that formation isn't the real target. Injecting groundwater into it would obviously produce highly concentrated brine, but might also lead to a ecological situation similar to what happened in Assumption Parish/Napoleonville
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:39 am to Lolathon234
Proxyvote notice and link came in this morning. Mintak and Alvaro (recently sold 800K worth of shares) didn't make the cut with me.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:42 am to Wraytex
I voted against the entire board.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:25 am to jerryc436
quote:I would love to hear the argument against this vote. Seems that anything other than that is a vote for what is going on, and when you take public money there is a responsibility that is just not being met IMO.
I voted against the entire board.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 11:13 am to Wraytex
How does one get these notices?
I have about 20k SLI TSX shares in different accounts at Questrade.
I have about 20k SLI TSX shares in different accounts at Questrade.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 11:18 am to gautamj
They should come from your broker. Mine via Schwab.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 11:30 am to jerryc436
quote:I did as well
voted against the entire board
Posted on 5/30/24 at 2:55 pm to jerryc436
I voted no for Mintak.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 6:57 pm to ColoradoAg03
I haven't had time to look, it is a no down the board on all board members and proposals?
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:25 pm to GREENHEAD22
I was wondering how they performed this last year vs other lithium companies to have better perspective. Compared 5 lithium stocks’ 1 year change:
Albemarle -38%
Standard Lithium -58%
Lithium Americas (Joe Lowry’s baby) -58%
Sigma Lithium -58%
Piedmont Lithium -75%
I’d love to see how Mintak fits in in a room full of CEOs and politicians before voting. But on steady (if slow) progress alone I’m leaning toward voting For everything with the exception of Alvaro. He recently sold a bunch, I don’t know what his function is, and something like 42% of votes were Against him last year.
DFS, PFS, surprisingly good results in Texas, and Equinor reminding us that 55% of something is better than 100% of nothing seem like a pretty good year. Though it all felt slow
Albemarle -38%
Standard Lithium -58%
Lithium Americas (Joe Lowry’s baby) -58%
Sigma Lithium -58%
Piedmont Lithium -75%
I’d love to see how Mintak fits in in a room full of CEOs and politicians before voting. But on steady (if slow) progress alone I’m leaning toward voting For everything with the exception of Alvaro. He recently sold a bunch, I don’t know what his function is, and something like 42% of votes were Against him last year.
DFS, PFS, surprisingly good results in Texas, and Equinor reminding us that 55% of something is better than 100% of nothing seem like a pretty good year. Though it all felt slow
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 5/30/24 at 9:52 pm to ev247
I'm not sure how familiar you guys are with the Arkansas Evergreen unit, but Tetra is the applicant. And most leases don't include a true royalty, but rather in lieu royalty, which is essentially rents due for each mineral acre leased, paid annually. It's also how Tetra requested the unleased mineral owners within the proposed unit be compensated in their application to the AOGC, who would have to approve it. The projected 20 year recovery is 547,500,000 bbl of brine, or 89,198 per acre. That's 4,460 annually. Tetra's proposal/original offer was 1/8th royalty, regardless of actual production, on a value of $0.364/bbl of brine(value currently set by the AOGC, but it should be noted they've increased twice before from $0.1825->$0.2927->$0.364).
For anyone interested, here is the actual proposed layout of the unit. Water supply wells are the large black circles, those perforated with a spear/spokes are the bottomhole location for the injection wells. Well bores are dashed white lines and well pads/surface locations are the red circles. The small circles/squares in the bottom left hand corner are pre-existing oil/gas wells, that's actually an O&G field with some wells still producing. Green line=gas pipeline, red=oil pipeline. Interestingly enough, a midstream company/their distribution & pipeline network exists in section 21, within the unit. So that infrastructure is already in place, assuming it can be utilized for transporting the brine out. Purple shaded area = fema flood zone A, blue lines running throughout it are creeks/streams. Large pink polygon marks the unit boundaries
For anyone interested, here is the actual proposed layout of the unit. Water supply wells are the large black circles, those perforated with a spear/spokes are the bottomhole location for the injection wells. Well bores are dashed white lines and well pads/surface locations are the red circles. The small circles/squares in the bottom left hand corner are pre-existing oil/gas wells, that's actually an O&G field with some wells still producing. Green line=gas pipeline, red=oil pipeline. Interestingly enough, a midstream company/their distribution & pipeline network exists in section 21, within the unit. So that infrastructure is already in place, assuming it can be utilized for transporting the brine out. Purple shaded area = fema flood zone A, blue lines running throughout it are creeks/streams. Large pink polygon marks the unit boundaries
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:55 pm to Lolathon234
Isn’t Arkansas bromine an in lieu of royalties arrangement? Something like $56/year/acre I think I read.
You clearly have lots of technical understanding here. When the landowners requested a 12% royalty at the Dec hearing (similar to oil royalties), were they requesting 12% gross of lithium carbonate/hydroxide sales? I ask because Standard argued that their finished lithium products are more like jet fuel than oil, and landowners aren’t paid a royalty based on the value of jet fuel but of oil. So naturally everyone wants to know the value of raw brine, but there’s no market for it. Except maybe what Standard will be paying Lanxess for their brine, but that’s confidential, they’ve said.
To a simpleton like me it seems logical for them to use a similar structure for lithium as they do for bromine, since neither seems to be worth much while suspended in brine before expensive processing is done to collect them. Any thoughts on where you think this should go/is going?
You clearly have lots of technical understanding here. When the landowners requested a 12% royalty at the Dec hearing (similar to oil royalties), were they requesting 12% gross of lithium carbonate/hydroxide sales? I ask because Standard argued that their finished lithium products are more like jet fuel than oil, and landowners aren’t paid a royalty based on the value of jet fuel but of oil. So naturally everyone wants to know the value of raw brine, but there’s no market for it. Except maybe what Standard will be paying Lanxess for their brine, but that’s confidential, they’ve said.
To a simpleton like me it seems logical for them to use a similar structure for lithium as they do for bromine, since neither seems to be worth much while suspended in brine before expensive processing is done to collect them. Any thoughts on where you think this should go/is going?
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 11:53 pm
Posted on 5/30/24 at 10:57 pm to Lolathon234
Wait are you saying that the AOGC already has a value for brine of $0.364/bbl?
Posted on 5/31/24 at 1:01 am to ev247
Highly relevant PDF
I have a bit of a background in chem and have spent way too much of time the last ~5 years learning the O&G industry. But my interest isn't SLI shares, I'm currently in the early stages of negotiating actual brine/lithium leases for minerals I own
Can’t go much into detail on the lease offers/terms, but the sinkhole that formed in Assumption parish has me spooked. Those were brine injection wells and Dow Chemical was operating a plant less than a mile away/had been producing brine since 1965. I'm legitimately concerned about them targetting the salt domes, which could have devastating effects on the surface estate. It also makes me wonder if that's not why the AOGC/RRC seem disinterested
As for the value of the brine, if you dig enough, you can find compositional analysis for ground/produced water samples from wells in the vicinity via USGS(*BS)/uni geo bureaus. It’s the best you can hope for without drilling a test-well, but primary exclusions in good-faith are rare earths and radioactives(RIP uranium, if an E&P ever references helium in the lease, tell them to stop being a bitch), which are generally trace anyway.
From that point, you just need to find out what the market value is for each element and do some math
*don’t be an idiot, they’re 400% full of shite
I have a bit of a background in chem and have spent way too much of time the last ~5 years learning the O&G industry. But my interest isn't SLI shares, I'm currently in the early stages of negotiating actual brine/lithium leases for minerals I own
Can’t go much into detail on the lease offers/terms, but the sinkhole that formed in Assumption parish has me spooked. Those were brine injection wells and Dow Chemical was operating a plant less than a mile away/had been producing brine since 1965. I'm legitimately concerned about them targetting the salt domes, which could have devastating effects on the surface estate. It also makes me wonder if that's not why the AOGC/RRC seem disinterested
As for the value of the brine, if you dig enough, you can find compositional analysis for ground/produced water samples from wells in the vicinity via USGS(*BS)/uni geo bureaus. It’s the best you can hope for without drilling a test-well, but primary exclusions in good-faith are rare earths and radioactives(RIP uranium, if an E&P ever references helium in the lease, tell them to stop being a bitch), which are generally trace anyway.
From that point, you just need to find out what the market value is for each element and do some math
*don’t be an idiot, they’re 400% full of shite
This post was edited on 7/18/24 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 5/31/24 at 6:46 am to Lolathon234
Weren't they drilling in a lake above the salt dome in Assumption? Would there be any difference in Arkansas without the lake?
Posted on 5/31/24 at 8:01 am to GrizzlyAlloy
No, it was in the interior section between 2 creeks/bayous just before their intersection point. If there's any hydrologists on here, mayb they can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure here is how it works....
During flooding events each of those waterways reach max capacity, and when they merge, it's too much volume for the the new singular creek, thus it starts to overflow at the point of confluence. Since it's no longer flowing properly, the 2 tributaries just up stream also become stagnant. And given the water from higher elevations is still flowing properly, it simply reinforces the flooding via a loop, creating a typical bottomland floodplain. And sediment gets deposited all around the banks starting in the area where they meet and moving upstream, with a considerable amount deposited in between the two waterways. It's easiest to imagine it like this, the 2 creeks form a Y, the V section being the 2 independently up until their point of the intersection and the straight line being after their merger into a single waterbody. Much of the sediment is deposited just before the merger, in between the V section of the Y. And that's where they were drilling
But the entire area was a complete mess and some of those wells were deep enough to reach the louann salts, which start at ~12,500' +/- a few hundred feet for elevation, as far as I know. The sinkhole occurred in the middle of section 40, just look at all this bullshite
The contours are the outcrops of the salt domes, not sure which formation though
During flooding events each of those waterways reach max capacity, and when they merge, it's too much volume for the the new singular creek, thus it starts to overflow at the point of confluence. Since it's no longer flowing properly, the 2 tributaries just up stream also become stagnant. And given the water from higher elevations is still flowing properly, it simply reinforces the flooding via a loop, creating a typical bottomland floodplain. And sediment gets deposited all around the banks starting in the area where they meet and moving upstream, with a considerable amount deposited in between the two waterways. It's easiest to imagine it like this, the 2 creeks form a Y, the V section being the 2 independently up until their point of the intersection and the straight line being after their merger into a single waterbody. Much of the sediment is deposited just before the merger, in between the V section of the Y. And that's where they were drilling
But the entire area was a complete mess and some of those wells were deep enough to reach the louann salts, which start at ~12,500' +/- a few hundred feet for elevation, as far as I know. The sinkhole occurred in the middle of section 40, just look at all this bullshite
The contours are the outcrops of the salt domes, not sure which formation though
This post was edited on 5/31/24 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 6/4/24 at 11:31 am to ColoradoAg03
Mintak and the O&G commission needs to seriously get off their asses and get this ball rolling, or they'll be left in the dust with nothing to show for it....
Here comes Buffet and Occidental....
"Warren Buffett-backed Occidental Petroleum (OXY) and Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Energy announced a joint venture on Tuesday to extract lithium from geothermal electricity production. OXY shares angled lower early Tuesday.
Occidental Petroleum and Berkshire Hathaway Energy Renewables agreed to test and deploy technology to extracting lithium from geothermal brine. Geothermal brine is the hot salty water pumped to the surface of the earth and used to produce electricity.
Under the joint venture, the technology from TerraLithium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Occidental, is being tested at BHE Renewables' Imperial Valley geothermal facility. Testing aims to determine whether it can produce lithium in an "environmentally safe manner."
BHE Renewables operates 10 geothermal power plants in California's Imperial Valley generating 345 megawatts of clean energy. These facilities process 50,000 gallons of "lithium-rich brine" per minute, according to the company.
If the test is successful, Buffett's BHE Renewables plans to build commercial lithium production facilities in California's Imperial Valley, the company reported Tuesday. There are also plans to expand beyond the Imperial Valley under the joint Occidental-BHE Renewables venture."
LINK
Here comes Buffet and Occidental....
"Warren Buffett-backed Occidental Petroleum (OXY) and Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Energy announced a joint venture on Tuesday to extract lithium from geothermal electricity production. OXY shares angled lower early Tuesday.
Occidental Petroleum and Berkshire Hathaway Energy Renewables agreed to test and deploy technology to extracting lithium from geothermal brine. Geothermal brine is the hot salty water pumped to the surface of the earth and used to produce electricity.
Under the joint venture, the technology from TerraLithium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Occidental, is being tested at BHE Renewables' Imperial Valley geothermal facility. Testing aims to determine whether it can produce lithium in an "environmentally safe manner."
BHE Renewables operates 10 geothermal power plants in California's Imperial Valley generating 345 megawatts of clean energy. These facilities process 50,000 gallons of "lithium-rich brine" per minute, according to the company.
If the test is successful, Buffett's BHE Renewables plans to build commercial lithium production facilities in California's Imperial Valley, the company reported Tuesday. There are also plans to expand beyond the Imperial Valley under the joint Occidental-BHE Renewables venture."
LINK
This post was edited on 6/4/24 at 11:32 am
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