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re: Who here is former Big 4?
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:46 am to Jorts R Us
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:46 am to Jorts R Us
So how did you guys feel about working for the big 4? Did you feel like they paid you appropriately?
3
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:56 am to Louie T
quote:
This was my fear, and it absolutely came to fruition
Same here.
Tax guys either go to a smaller firm or go to industry as a manager or director. Some as a senior.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:57 am to Jcorye1
quote:
So how did you guys feel about working for the big 4? Did you feel like they paid you appropriately?
Depends on how you look at it. Rate / hour? Probably not/ But you can move up quickly. That is ahrder to come by in industry.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 11:19 am to Jcorye1
quote:
So how did you guys feel about working for the big 4? Did you feel like they paid you appropriately?
Great exposure. Great brand. Good people. Pay can be questionable / low given the rates being charged. MBB does a significantly better job compensating but they are harder to break into and the politics are even stronger. You have to be a quant jockey to succeed there and that isn't necessarily the case in B4 (although it helps a lot).
I look at employee happiness in 3 buckets:
1) Compensation
2) Client Exposure / Training
3) Travel / Work-Life Balance
If 2 of the 3 are good, then the employee is relatively happy and is less likely to leave. The moment that only 1 of the 3 is good, the employee becomes very likely to leave and will see even more negatives in the job than beforehand.
For example, someone who is well paid and on a great project is typically willing to sacrifice on a tougher schedule. However, someone on a great project but feels underpaid is going to get even more annoyed by a poor travel schedule than he/she would be otherwise.
The reality is that most people get one promo and get out. It serves a purpose and is a great 2-3 year run for most people.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 11:21 am
Posted on 1/8/16 at 11:54 am to lynxcat
quote:
MBB does a significantly better job compensating but they are harder to break into and the politics are even stronger.
I find it odd you even mention MBB in the same breath as Big 4. I just find them so different. The only B4 group that could even compare to the prestige of MBB would probably be Deloitte's monitor group, but even that is a stretch.
Also the politics at big 4 are ridiculous.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 12:00 pm to Samso
I had to look up what the MBB was ha.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 12:05 pm to lynxcat
quote:
How do they treat compensation? If someone got a sizeable raise leaving for industry (this is normal) and then comes back to the consulting firm (presumably in the same title) does the firm give an additional comp bump?
Obviously, I wouldn't know anything "officially". However, the answer is "depends". Some people probably come back for only a marginal raise (if any) over their industry salary and some come back with very large raises.
Things that factor into this are:
a) How long were you gone
b) How valuable were you when you last worked at the big 4
c) What did you do in industry and what added value do you bring in coming back
d) What is the current market need like in your service line
quote:
^^If true, this would be a classic case of what ticks off folks at the firm...someone comes in externally earning more than people who have been trained at the firm from the beginning.
I used to get worked up over this, but it really is just the nature of the market. Obviously, as someone who has "grown up" in the firm there will be times when I am "under" market on my salary; however, in the long term it tends to equal out. I like my job, and I believe my position as a consultant in my particular service line affords me more opportunities than working for a bank (or other FI) would.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 12:20 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
So how did you guys feel about working for the big 4? Did you feel like they paid you appropriately?
Most will probably tell you no they weren't paid appropriately; however, if they were being honest with themselves most probably are paid appropriately. When I consider my age and compare what I'm getting paid vs what my friends in other jobs are getting paid, it's not bad at all.
Big 4 employees have a tendency to compare their salaries to other extremes in the market (e.g. Investment Banking/Hedge Fund, certain types of engineers, MBB etc.) and assume that's what they should be making. In the long term, Big 4 employees do pretty well for themselves; however, like someone else said most only stay 2-3 years so they never really see the long term large increases in salary.
ETA: To clarify my experience is exclusively with advisory. I'm sure Tax and Audit really does suck as bad as they say.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 1/8/16 at 12:35 pm to Jorts R Us
I spent 5 years in audit and left to go work in private industry, and I wouldn't change a thing. Better pay, better hours, less stress, and I get to see the fruit and spoils of my labor. I was very selective about what I left for though. I don't think I could handle the bullshite of most large public companies.
I'm a big fish, small pond type though. It's all about the other fish and the pond you're in though. Choose carefully.
I'm a big fish, small pond type though. It's all about the other fish and the pond you're in though. Choose carefully.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 1/8/16 at 1:16 pm to Samso
quote:
Who here is former Big 4?
quote:
MBB does a significantly better job compensating but they are harder to break into and the politics are even stronger.
I find it odd you even mention MBB in the same breath as Big 4. I just find them so different. The only B4 group that could even compare to the prestige of MBB would probably be Deloitte's monitor group, but even that is a stretch.
Also the politics at big 4 are ridiculous.
There are groups within each of the B4 that do similar work as MBB but they are just very small. MBB also does work outside of enterprise strategy (as they are well known for) and compete against B4 + Accenture + IBM + Oliver Wyman, etc. MBB consistently recruits the best from the best schools and they pay them accordingly. B4 gets the next rung typically.
As a general rule though, I agree with you that MBB and B4 are not very comparable.
Politics at every company can be bad.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 1/8/16 at 1:22 pm to MStant1
quote:
Most will probably tell you no they weren't paid appropriately; however, if they were being honest with themselves most probably are paid appropriately. When I consider my age and compare what I'm getting paid vs what my friends in other jobs are getting paid, it's not bad at all.
What my friends are paid is not the right comparison set. The comp set is what others in the same field are being paid. I think consulting / advisory is where the compensation issues exist. The B4 sets the market for audit and tax and if one of them is out of line then people will just switch to another one of the B4.
quote:
Big 4 employees have a tendency to compare their salaries to other extremes in the market (e.g. Investment Banking/Hedge Fund, certain types of engineers, MBB etc.) and assume that's what they should be making
Service line dictates this. If I was a Transactions Advisory guy in the B4 doing the same work as an Investment Bank but getting paid 2/3 of what they do, then it is fair for the jimmies to be rustled, IMO.
quote:
In the long term, Big 4 employees do pretty well for themselves; however, like someone else said most only stay 2-3 years so they never really see the long term large increases in salary.
The fact that you have to accept being paid under market for years with the hope that it eventually evens out is what annoys folks.
The reality is the firms need people to leave to keep the pyramid working. The issue is when you lose the top ranked folks and the average stick around.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:01 pm to MStant1
Former big 4 whore (3 of big 5)
Went industry, small firm, regulator, and now run my own show.
Don't miss it but appreciate it
Went industry, small firm, regulator, and now run my own show.
Don't miss it but appreciate it
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:56 pm to lynxcat
quote:
What my friends are paid is not the right comparison set. The comp set is what others in the same field are being paid. I think consulting / advisory is where the compensation issues exist. The B4 sets the market for audit and tax and if one of them is out of line then people will just switch to another one of the B4.
I was speaking in a very general sense. As someone under 30 (barely) I'm very well paid.
quote:
Service line dictates this. If I was a Transactions Advisory guy in the B4 doing the same work as an Investment Bank but getting paid 2/3 of what they do, then it is fair for the jimmies to be rustled, IMO.
The fact that you have to accept being paid under market for years with the hope that it eventually evens out is what annoys folks. The reality is the firms need people to leave to keep the pyramid working. The issue is when you lose the top ranked folks and the average stick around.
Fair point that service line highly dictates the validity of my point. Same with whether those leaving the Big 4 are the most talented and those remaining are the "average". My service line tends to have the high performers stick around, and the average or low performers leave.
I guess ultimately I'm not that concerned with the possibility of being marginally under market in the short term if overall I like what I do and see a long term career path for myself that will ultimately pay out.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:16 pm to MStant1
There is no doubt that young people are able to make a very solid living in the B4. Making six figures by 30 is terrific by almost all standards 
Posted on 1/8/16 at 11:08 pm to lynxcat
No public accounting experience but hoping to get CPA and some experience with a smaller firm before trying the big leagues for a little bit. Don't care about pay just want some experience and other non monetary benefits.
Posted on 1/9/16 at 4:08 pm to lynxcat
quote:
^^If true, this would be a classic case of what ticks off folks at the firm...someone comes in externally earning more than people who have been trained at the firm from the beginning.
This definitely happens. I know people firsthand who left, got a raise, and then returned for a much higher pay than if they had stayed. I also learned people junior of me in the firm who are external hires make more than me. It's ridiculous. I should leave.
Posted on 1/9/16 at 4:25 pm to Tigerbait46
quote:
This definitely happens. I know people firsthand who left, got a raise, and then returned for a much higher pay than if they had stayed. I also learned people junior of me in the firm who are external hires make more than me. It's ridiculous. I should leave.
SOAPBOX [ON] OFF
I think it happens a lot on the advisory side because the only way you get experienced folks to join and give up the industry lifestyle is by giving them a major comp bump. Or, you steal them from a competitor firm which requires a premium. Of all things the B4 can work on from a human capital perspective, it is sorting out that mess. The culture with leadership was that "no one talks about comp" but hiding information / hiding from the reality that people are going to discuss it is not how you deal with the issue at hand.
(This reminds me a lot of how leaders were scared of social media originally and the simple response we gave was "it doesn't matter if you participate in the discussion or not, the discussion is going to happen anyways. You might as well be active in shaping the discussion.")
I am a big believer in transparency but most HR strategy these days is against it on the comp front.
Regardless of HR strategy, you cannot ever discount the experience your people are gaining internally. Your home grown folks should theoretically be your highest paid - they are the ones you groomed and trained. If you believe in your ability to train and the quality of their client exposure, then those should be the people that run engagements the smoothest and understand the firms expectations the best. Above all else, do whatever it takes to keep the top people (after all, these firms are nothing but human capital).
With all that said, the pros vastly outweigh the cons. Very few professions are better for a recent undergraduate.
SOAPBOX ON [OFF]
This post was edited on 1/9/16 at 4:28 pm
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