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re: 2025 Formula 1 Season Thread
Posted on 12/22/25 at 7:40 pm to MississippiLebowski
Posted on 12/22/25 at 7:40 pm to MississippiLebowski
quote:
“A reported compromise would allow Mercedes-powered teams to race with a non-compliant engine, provided they return to compliance in 2027...”
This would be the most F1 thing ever, lol.
1
Posted on 12/22/25 at 9:02 pm to TigerFanatic99
Is it non-compliant, or not in the spirit of the rules?
Posted on 12/22/25 at 9:16 pm to BottomlandBrew
quote:
Is it non-compliant, or not in the spirit of the rules?
It's not in the spirit of Ferrari First.
This post was edited on 12/23/25 at 6:13 am
Posted on 12/24/25 at 8:08 am to TigerFanatic99
Looks like it will be a long season for Cadillac.
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Posted on 12/24/25 at 10:21 am to MississippiLebowski
Thanks for posting these tweets as always, but are some of these stories just massive speculation? I haven’t seen any normal articles about this topic yet
It’s going to be a long season for any new team regardless.
quote:
Looks like it will be a long season for Cadillac.
It’s going to be a long season for any new team regardless.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 11:07 am to s14suspense
I think there is probably a certain level of speculation going on, but the story about Mercedes finding a loop hole has been widely reported over the last week and Mercedes has done nothing to shoot it down.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 12:48 pm to MississippiLebowski
I don't like how they call it a loophole. They aren't doing something nefarious to skirt the rules, they just found a design consideration that no one else outside of Redbull found.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 1:51 pm to TigerFanatic99
I really can't believe it took someone this long to do this if it is as simple as it seems.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 3:47 pm to fightin tigers
It's the double-diffuser all over again! 
In 2009, Brawn, Toyota and Williams started the season with the double-diffuser, and after protests resulted in a "legal" ruling, it took almost half the season for Red Bull and McLaren to start catching up. Red Bull actually had a fundamentally better car, as they proved 2010-2013.
This interesting article explains why Brawn had an advantage even over Toyota and Williams from the start of the season:
espn.com/f1/story/_/id/28167450/busting-myth-brawn-gp-legendary-double-diffuser
This 2026 engine thing sounds way more serious though, like it could take far longer for the other engines to catch up.
If no one has linked this article yet, it provides some interesting info about keeping things on an even keel:
motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-red-bull-and-the-2026-engines-whats-behind-the-recent-fuss-in-f1/10786380/
In 2009, Brawn, Toyota and Williams started the season with the double-diffuser, and after protests resulted in a "legal" ruling, it took almost half the season for Red Bull and McLaren to start catching up. Red Bull actually had a fundamentally better car, as they proved 2010-2013.
This interesting article explains why Brawn had an advantage even over Toyota and Williams from the start of the season:
espn.com/f1/story/_/id/28167450/busting-myth-brawn-gp-legendary-double-diffuser
This 2026 engine thing sounds way more serious though, like it could take far longer for the other engines to catch up.
If no one has linked this article yet, it provides some interesting info about keeping things on an even keel:
motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-red-bull-and-the-2026-engines-whats-behind-the-recent-fuss-in-f1/10786380/
quote:
It naturally raises the question of the consequences for other engine manufacturers if the FIA does not intervene before the start of the F1 season and leaves the checks as they are now. In that scenario, the rest would have to respond, but it seems unlikely that such a response could be implemented before 1 March and thus before the engine homologation. It could mean a handicap lasting until the start of 2027, although the ADUO mechanism does provide a potential safety net prior to that.
ADUO stands for Additional Development and Upgrade Opportunities and means that engine suppliers who are behind are granted additional development options. Based on three periods of six races each (1–6, 7–12, 13–18), the FIA measures the power of the internal combustion engine. If a manufacturer is between 2% and 4% down on the best ICE, it is granted one additional upgrade. If it is more than 4% behind, it receives two additional upgrades. This could allow manufacturers to introduce a similar solution before 2027 if the FIA allows the current situation to stand – although it would still be crucial to fully understand exactly how others are achieving it.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 4:00 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
I think that’s the one I linked on the previous page. But I missed what you quoted for sure. Good info.
Posted on 12/24/25 at 5:20 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
The only relevant question is are Merc and RBR objectively breaking a rule. That's all that matters. If they are, they need to be punished.
If they aren't, then nothing else matters. It's the other teams' fault for not innovating. If their engines suck they will "earn" an additional upgrade or two next year.
Sucks for them, but it is what it is. It's the most F1 thing ever for them to legitimately discuss holding back Merc or RBR, or giving benefits to other manufacturers, because Merc and RBR did smarter work within the rules.
If they aren't, then nothing else matters. It's the other teams' fault for not innovating. If their engines suck they will "earn" an additional upgrade or two next year.
Sucks for them, but it is what it is. It's the most F1 thing ever for them to legitimately discuss holding back Merc or RBR, or giving benefits to other manufacturers, because Merc and RBR did smarter work within the rules.
Posted on 12/27/25 at 6:54 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
The only relevant question is are Merc and RBR objectively breaking a rule.
Catching up on the thread... Isn't it RB and Merc that they are saying will get around a 15hp advantage out of this design?
Is the reason they can't take it away from those two or give it to the others due to it being only a couple of months from the season and not enough time to remake the engine?
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Posted on 12/27/25 at 5:31 pm to Lsut81
Posted on 12/27/25 at 10:25 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
I don't like how they call it a loophole. They aren't doing something nefarious to skirt the rules, they just found a design consideration that no one else outside of Redbull found.
If the reporting is true, they are in violation of the rule stating regulations must be adhered to at all times during the races.
Posted on 12/28/25 at 8:41 am to MikeD
Toto gave Vowles the talking points recently:
quote:
“No one knows, no one of any engine manufacturer knows where they're going to fall out,” Vowles told media including RacingNews365.
“Part of the speculation that appeared was one team and PU manufacturer trying to create a narrative to get some changes, to be completely clear.
“But no one really knows. I strongly doubt Ferrari has done a poor job, they are very good at getting this right year on year.
“Honda this year has produced a benchmark engine. So I don't think it's going to be like 2014 where you have such a runaway that you can have all the teams carried with it.
“Mercedes, we've been working specifically on 2026 with them since early 2024 when we signed the agreement.
“What I can say is they've done good preparation. Let's see what that translates to.”
Posted on 12/28/25 at 9:26 am to MikeD
quote:
If the reporting is true, they are in violation of the rule stating regulations must be adhered to at all times during the races.
What regulation is their engine not adhering to?
Posted on 12/28/25 at 10:24 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:
What regulation is their engine not adhering to?
Theoretically the 16:1 compression ratio they test and measure statically but increases once the engine is running.
Posted on 12/28/25 at 12:58 pm to MikeD
quote:
If the reporting is true, they are in violation of the rule stating regulations must be adhered to at all times during the races.
That would be impossible to prove and that would put every team in violation of many rules
Posted on 12/28/25 at 1:34 pm to s14suspense
quote:
Theoretically the 16:1 compression ratio they test and measure statically but increases once the engine is running.
All compression ratio changes when temperature is changed.
Part of the reason the engines have to be heated the way they do. Tolerances and all that noise.
Posted on 12/28/25 at 3:49 pm to fightin tigers
Hey, I’m with yall both. Just trying to explain my understanding of this situation based on the tweets that have been posted here.
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