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re: Is Kobe Bryant top 5 all time......for the Lakers?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:16 pm to TulaneTigerFan
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:16 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:Mamba DNA!!!
He's got that ice water in his veins son
0
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:16 pm to TulaneTigerFan
that's Zima, he serves it up to the bitches after hours
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:17 pm to shel311
quote:
Oh boy.
You disagree?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:19 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:I disagree in that the "cold blooded assassin" thing is just dumb.
You disagree?
I also disagree in that a player in some of the most clutch situations who for a career is below average and worse than other top players is thought of as one of the most clutch ever. Yes, I disagree with that, the numbers are on my side on that one too, just like with Wade being a better scorer.
Again, I am biased towards the production and efficiency, not towards regurgitating the media telling me someone is an ASSASSIN!!!
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:19 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
You disagree?
Very valid arguments have been made that he isn't clutch at all.
The Truth About Kobe In Crunch Time
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:22 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.
When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.
How does this equate to cold blooded assassin/one of the most clutch ever?
It doesn't add up, just doesn't.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:23 pm to shel311
quote:
I disagree in that the "cold blooded assassin" thing is just dumb.
I also disagree in that a player in some of the most clutch situations who for a career is below average and worse than other top players is thought of as one of the most clutch ever. Yes, I disagree with that, the numbers are on my side on that one too, just like with Wade being a better scorer.
Again, I am biased towards the production and efficiency, not towards regurgitating the media telling me someone is an ASSASSIN!!!
I will agree that the media overblows and overhypes alot of players. Hell, look at MJ's numbers in crunch time and you will be surprised.
But Kobe is also a 5 time champion who has hit a ton of big shots over the course of his career. That is not debatable. Did he miss quite a few too? Sure, but so did MJ.
And to address your love-fest with Wade, his numbers are already declining and this his his 10th season in the league. How do you think they will look in 7 more years?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:25 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Read that article Bobbyray posted, it's an eye opener.
But Kobe is also a 5 time champion who has hit a ton of big shots over the course of his career. That is not debatable. Did he miss quite a few too? Sure, but so did MJ
quote:I think you meant with production/efficiency.
And to address your love-fest with Wade
quote:He won't play 17 years. Give me a long, sustained higher peak than a lower peak with 4 extra years. Wade's peak, he produced more and more efficiently than Kobe. That's the guy I want going up against the aliens.
do you think they will look in 7 more years?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:27 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
Lets not continue to underrate West. West>>> Kobe, that is certain. Shaq produced 3 titles/3 final mvps and 4 finals appearances as the man compared to Kobe's two final wins and mvps so you can argue Shaq over him.
Magic
Kareem
West
Kobe
Wilt
Wilt was in the decline during the Lakers years, had so e miserable performances in the postseason where West carried them offensively. Id definitely put Kobe ahead of him.
Magic
Kareem
West
Kobe
Wilt
Wilt was in the decline during the Lakers years, had so e miserable performances in the postseason where West carried them offensively. Id definitely put Kobe ahead of him.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:29 pm to shel311
quote:
Give me a long, sustained higher peak
Wait, you think Wade had a longer sustained peak? I disagree
quote:
Wade's peak, he produced more and more efficiently than Kobe.
What are you trying to argue, Wade's best couple of seasons were better than Kobe's? If so that is a legit discussion. If you are arguing overall throughout the course of his tenure in the NBA, Wade > Kobe, than you are crazy.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:31 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
8/10, very well thought out and organized troll attempt. :welldone:
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:31 pm to GTownJag4
quote:
GTownJag4
Cmon now, you can't argue Shaq > Kobe because:
quote:
Shaq produced 3 titles/3 final mvps and 4 finals appearances as the man compared to Kobe's two final wins and mvps so you can argue Shaq over him.
And then argue West >> Kobe. Its just not logically consistent.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:32 pm to onmymedicalgrind
I love this thread.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:33 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:A higher peak.
Wait, you think Wade had a longer sustained peak? I disagree
Wade at his best produced more and more efficiently than Kobe at his best. But Wade's put up 9 elite seasons, that's a long enough time, it wasn't like 1 or 2 flash in the pan type seasons. That's what I mean when I say a longer sustained higher peak.
quote:
What are you trying to argue, Wade's best couple of seasons were better than Kobe's?
Wade's last 9 years, he has produced more and more efficiently than any Kobe 9 year span. I wouldn't be surprised if those 9 years were more efficient than Kobe's most efficient 9 years, just picking all the best seasons, but I won't go that far cause that may be reaching, but I'm guessing it would be somewhere close.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:34 pm to shel311
Is there ever a Kobe thread that doesn't go 10 pages?
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:37 pm to onmymedicalgrind
Its not West fault that he went up against the most dominant dynasty in the history of pro sports. Fact is West did a lot more for the Laker brand than Kobe.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:38 pm to shel311
quote:
A higher peak.
Wade at his best produced more and more efficiently than Kobe at his best. But Wade's put up 9 elite seasons, that's a long enough time, it wasn't like 1 or 2 flash in the pan type seasons. That's what I mean when I say a longer sustained higher peak.
Debatable. Not saying I disagree with you, but I don't think its so cut and dry either. FWIW I think Kobe put up way more than 9 elite seasons, and thats counting this year.
quote:
Wade's last 9 years, he has produced more and more efficiently than any Kobe 9 year span. I wouldn't be surprised if those 9 years were more efficient than Kobe's most efficient 9 years, just picking all the best seasons, but I won't go that far cause that may be reaching, but I'm guessing it would be somewhere close.
Wade has been a more efficient scorer, particularly in terms of FG%, I will give you that. So maybe Wade is marginally better offensively than Kobe.
However, my rebuttal to you is, what about defensively? Thats 50% of the game, and in that aspect Kobe >> Wade and it isn't even really close.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:40 pm to GTownJag4
quote:
Its not West fault that he went up against the most dominant dynasty in the history of pro sports. Fact is West did a lot more for the Laker brand than Kobe.
I'm just saying, be consistent. You can't pick and choose when to use titles as a deciding factor in an argument. West couldnt win a title until Wilt came.
Sure, he might have done more for the Laker brand (hell, the NBA brand considering hes the logo
) but that doesn't mean hes the better laker on the court.Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:40 pm to Na Mean
quote:Something's gotta get me through the work day, and it ain't the 200 unread emails I have.
Is there ever a Kobe thread that doesn't go 10 pages
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:41 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
However, my rebuttal to you is, what about defensive? Thats 50% of the game, and in that aspect Kobe >> Wade and it isn't even really close.
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