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Started By
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re: RIP: Pirates’ legend Bill Mazeroski
Posted on 2/22/26 at 11:33 am to Mizz-SEC
Posted on 2/22/26 at 11:33 am to Mizz-SEC
quote:
Talk about a hard 47 years in this pic form 1964.
Danny Murtaugh is only 47 years young in that photo?
Here's Casey Stengel from 1960 (age 69.) Talk about a guy who's always looked old.
> 
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Posted on 2/22/26 at 11:40 am to 308
quote:
That 7th game homer Maz hit was not a cheapie. It cleared the wall by a good 10 feet just to the left of the 406' mark.
That ball was absolutely crushed off Ralph Terry. That park's cavernous 406' dimension in left field was insane. Watched again -- it was a good 10' above the wall when it cleared it. Could have landed 435'-440' away.
Posted on 2/22/26 at 11:58 am to InkStainedWretch
quote:
Art Ditmar who started Game 1 for the Yankees in 1960 had better numbers than Ford that year, and Ford had stunk it up in his most recent postseason appearances. Whitey was great but if he’d been run over by a bus the night before the World Series that year he’d have never seen Cooperstown, the stretch that got him in the Hall of Fame started in this Series.
Whatchoo takin' bout Willis?
Whitey Ford was STILL Whitey Ford, ace of the staff. He'd started every first game of every WS for the Bombers since 1955.
That year (1960) Ford went 12-9, got a bit tired near the end. But his ERA (3.08) was about the same as Ditmar (3.06) who finished at 15-9.
By the end of 1960 Whitey Ford's Yankee ace legacy (only 31 years old) has already grown, his winning pct was gaudy at that point. (133-59). The guy was Cooperstown bound in any case.
quote:
I’ve always thought Stengel got a bad rap over that not starting Ford in Game 1)
Most observers were actually flabbergasted by Stengel starting Art Ditmar over Whitey Ford in Game 1. Ditmar went only 5-7 on the road and this was a high pressure WS Game1.
Meanwhile Ford was cool reliable in WS games. Casey messed up and cost the Yanks the series right then and there. Ditmar could get out of the 1st inning, giving the Pirates hope for the rest of the series. Ford of course dominated, shutting out the Bucs twice.
Casey also has Whitey warming up in the pen during Game 7. He went instead with Ralph Terry.
Credit to Murtaugh and Pirates for persevering, but they totally lucked out in Game 7.
Posted on 2/22/26 at 12:22 pm to EphesianArmor
That 7th game took so many twists and turns. What a game!
Mantle barely avoided that tag out by Rocky Nelson at 1b in the top of the 9th, which would have ended the WS.
If Mantle gets tagged out, then Hal Smith would have been the historical hero of the game instead of Maz.
Smith hit the huge two out, three run homer in the bottom of the 8th to put the Pirates ahead 9-7.
Forbes Field was really rocking after that Smith homer.
Mantle barely avoided that tag out by Rocky Nelson at 1b in the top of the 9th, which would have ended the WS.
If Mantle gets tagged out, then Hal Smith would have been the historical hero of the game instead of Maz.
Smith hit the huge two out, three run homer in the bottom of the 8th to put the Pirates ahead 9-7.
Forbes Field was really rocking after that Smith homer.
This post was edited on 2/22/26 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 2/22/26 at 12:30 pm to EphesianArmor
I love me some Whitey but coming into the 1960 World Series Whitey was 4-3 with a 3.22 ERA in the postseason. Good but not earth shattering. And he was 0-1 in three games with an ERA over 4 in the Yankees’ most recent Series appearance in 1958 against Milwaukee. His postseason performance up until then was not going to get him into Cooperstown.
In fact, aside from 1960 and 1961 when he dominated in the postseason and set a scoreless innings streak, he was under .500 in the postseason, 6-8, with a 3.47 ERA. His entire postseason legend is based on two World Series, 1960 and 1961.
If it had been me, I’d have started Whitey. But I think Stengel’s move was defensible. And I think the retroactive griping about the move from his players is out of bitterness over them thinking they lost to an inferior opponent, thinking those three lopsided victories meant more than they did and the fact that this those Yankee teams never thought they needed a manager anyway, and Mantle in particular always resented Stengel because Stengel thought Mantle could have been the GOAT but pissed away his talent.
And if we want to get revisionist, if Bob Friend who was the Pirates’ No. 2 pitcher that year and actually had some better numbers in some way than Law hadn’t completely s**t the bed every time Murtaugh handed him the ball, it might not have gone seven games.
In fact, aside from 1960 and 1961 when he dominated in the postseason and set a scoreless innings streak, he was under .500 in the postseason, 6-8, with a 3.47 ERA. His entire postseason legend is based on two World Series, 1960 and 1961.
If it had been me, I’d have started Whitey. But I think Stengel’s move was defensible. And I think the retroactive griping about the move from his players is out of bitterness over them thinking they lost to an inferior opponent, thinking those three lopsided victories meant more than they did and the fact that this those Yankee teams never thought they needed a manager anyway, and Mantle in particular always resented Stengel because Stengel thought Mantle could have been the GOAT but pissed away his talent.
And if we want to get revisionist, if Bob Friend who was the Pirates’ No. 2 pitcher that year and actually had some better numbers in some way than Law hadn’t completely s**t the bed every time Murtaugh handed him the ball, it might not have gone seven games.
Posted on 2/22/26 at 12:31 pm to EphesianArmor
quote:
they (the Pirates) totally lucked out in game 7.
I wouldn't go that far. The Pirates were a very scrappy team, fought hard, and deserved to win.
I do think the Yankees were the better team.
They came back the next year under Ralph Houk and turned into a steamroller.
This post was edited on 2/22/26 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 2/22/26 at 1:19 pm to 308
Mantle’s head fake to get back to the base and miss that tag attempt is IMO one of the greatest base running moments in MLB history.
Posted on 2/22/26 at 1:23 pm to InkStainedWretch
A lot of people from NO were Pirate fans, the NO Pelican minor league team was a Pirate farm club. So I had seen Elroy Face, Harvey Haddix, Vern Law, Smokey Burgess all play for the Pels.
Last year we were on a cruise, one night at dinner we happened to sit with a couple, about my age, who were from Pittsburgh. We started talking about the Pirates, I made a small bet with him that I could name the '60's Pirate line-up. Burgess, Vern Law, Dick Stuart, Maz, Dick Groat, Don Hoak, Skinner, Virden and the greatest, Roberto Clemente. The other pitching staff was Bob Friend, Harvey Haddix, Elroy Face, I'm sure there were others.
Last year we were on a cruise, one night at dinner we happened to sit with a couple, about my age, who were from Pittsburgh. We started talking about the Pirates, I made a small bet with him that I could name the '60's Pirate line-up. Burgess, Vern Law, Dick Stuart, Maz, Dick Groat, Don Hoak, Skinner, Virden and the greatest, Roberto Clemente. The other pitching staff was Bob Friend, Harvey Haddix, Elroy Face, I'm sure there were others.
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