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re: LOST "LAX" S6.E1/2.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:24 am to CocomoLSU
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:24 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
That's interesting. Maybe MIB wants to keep Locke dead because of how useful he is as MIB's pawn. I may be off on this, but can't the MIB/Smokie only take forms of people who are dead?
The Monster manifested itself as Shannon once, so no, I think it can take the form of living people.
0
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:32 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Well, the island is sunken.
I've been thinking about this too.
Assuming that the nuclear blast sunk the island in 1977, it would have killed everyone still on the island.
No more Dharma Initiative and no more Others (at least the ones on the island).
No more Charles Widmore. Desmond never met Jack before they sat next to each other on the plane because Desmond never had to train for the boat race...yet Jack still felt like they had met before. Not sure if Eloise Hawking had made it off of the island at this point. If she died on the island, that means there is no more Daniel.
No more Ben.
Also, I don't think that the nuke blast can be considered the Incident considering that the blast sunk the island. It might be safe to assume the original Incident did not sink the island since the island was still there after it.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:36 am to Decatur
quote:
Not sure if Eloise Hawking had made it off of the island at this point.
I'm pretty sure she was still there. We know she was there the day of the blast because she escorted Jack and Sawyer to the bomb. Also, the sub had already left the island after dropping Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate back on the island (and I pretty sure The Others didn't have access to the sub prior to the purge.)
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:46 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
There's more than meets the eye. MIB pretty much implied he was Smokey last night. However... wtf was the whole draining the water thing for that Ben did to summon Smokey? That's pretty odd.
I assume that water is bad/harmful for the smoke monster in some way. It makes sense that Ben had to drain water to let it out. It also makes sense as to why MIB (as the monster) can't get off the island (i.e. surrounded by water). We also know that ash somehow plays into it as well.
Also, just because the smoke monster was within the outer walls of the temple area doesn't mean it was in teh actual temple. Unless I'm mistaken, once people go in through that hole in the wall/ground, don't they eventually have to swim underwater to actually get farther inside the temple area? That could explain how Smokie could be in the temple area but not actually IN the temple (which may or may not be his home).
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:52 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I assume that water is bad/harmful for the smoke monster in some way. It makes sense that Ben had to drain water to let it out. It also makes sense as to why MIB (as the monster) can't get off the island (i.e. surrounded by water). We also know that ash somehow plays into it as well.
Also, just because the smoke monster was within the outer walls of the temple area doesn't mean it was in teh actual temple. Unless I'm mistaken, once people go in through that hole in the wall/ground, don't they eventually have to swim underwater to actually get farther inside the temple area? That could explain how Smokie could be in the temple area but not actually IN the temple (which may or may not be his home).
Good points.. but, we know Smokey wasn't trapped anywhere as he was skipping around the island killing people since season 1. The idea that water might be the bain of Smokey makes more sense since you explain it that way, but I still don't get the drain thing.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Everyone believed Locke was special even from an early age,
but only because he told Richard in '54 that he was the leader and would be born in two years. Richard learned at the knife test that Locke wasn't special. It wasn't until he crashed on the island that this notion resurfaced due to the regained use of his legs. Assuming that Ben and the Others did as much dilligent research on Locke that they did on everyone, it's not a stretch to assume once they found out he was in a wheelchair the day before and now he's walking that he's "special"
They mistakenly assumed it was the island &/or Jacob that graced Locke, all the while (I think) it was all part of MIB's master plan
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:56 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I assume that water is bad/harmful for the smoke monster in some way. It makes sense that Ben had to drain water to let it out. It also makes sense as to why MIB (as the monster) can't get off the island (i.e. surrounded by water). We also know that ash somehow plays into it as well.
I assume the same thing. To my knowledge, he didnt turn off the sonic fence before he hit the drain
Posted on 2/4/10 at 10:58 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Good points.. but, we know Smokey wasn't trapped anywhere as he was skipping around the island killing people since season 1. The idea that water might be the bain of Smokey makes more sense since you explain it that way, but I still don't get the drain thing.
Answering my own questions.. thinking out loud...
Was the drain thing a way to let the monster inside the fence without turning it off? That makes more sense.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:09 am to Hot Carl
quote:
It's been a while, but I don't think he was jumping around to alternate realities as much as he was jumping around to different points in time in the same reality.
But how could it have been the same reality? It wasn't like he was disappearing from in front of the soldiers in the military training. Or was he? (I don't remember)
It was like there was a Desmond in both realities, and he was jumping back and forth between the two.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:13 am to The Godfather
quote:
I like the thought of that, but, has anyone other than a select few seen Jacob? I mean, MIB could have been himself and told Hurley he was Jacob and he wouldnt have know any better.
True. But the potential for MIB to take the form of Jacob would also explain why the tribe freaked out when Hurley told them Jacob was dead.
Also, it would make sense for MIB to pose as Jacob...even for a reason as simple as what if someone asked Hurley what Jacob looked like..then he'd be able to describe him. MIB knows that all teh tribe people were "serving" Jacob, so that's what he took the form of to convince Hurley to get the O6 and company to the temple (and under the guise of saving Sayid).
Also, there is a lot of biblical talk in this thread, and Heaven/Hell talk. Didn't pretty much everybody involved with the show point out that the island was not purgatory? I realize that being that some of the people there aren't actually dead kinda dismisses that, but I'd be pretty disappointed if it was "purgatory-like" even. I mean, the creators of the show made such a huge point out of saying that that is not what it was about. Right?
This post was edited on 2/4/10 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:17 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Answering my own questions.. thinking out loud...
Was the drain thing a way to let the monster inside the fence without turning it off? That makes more sense.
Still thinking... do we know if the fence really did anything to Smokey? Maybe it was there for the others only? But apparently not Richard? Maybe there was an ash ring or something around the Dharma initiative?
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:19 am to CocomoLSU
I question whether MIB was posing as Jacob to Hurley. The guitar case and its contents was obviously a way to authenticate to those in the temple that it was the true Jacob that sent Hurley to the temple. Otherwise, MIB would have had to visit Hurley off the island to deliver the guitar case.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:20 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
But how could it have been the same reality?
remember, his body collapsed on the stairs & in Ferriday's office, and on the boat
his consciousness was moving thru his own timeline, his body was not
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:23 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
but, we know Smokey wasn't trapped anywhere as he was skipping around the island killing people since season 1. The idea that water might be the bain of Smokey makes more sense since you explain it that way, but I still don't get the drain thing.
Because it was within the walls of the security/magnetic fence, right? So Ben let Smokey in via underground tunnels (which still had the water barrier to keep Smokey out until Ben drained it).
shite, I don't remember.
Also, I am forgetting...where is Aaron in all this? I watched teh three hours in a hotel room on a shitty TV (with shitty volume), and was interrupted by a phone call in the second half of the LA X episode. I noticed in the recap that they said the "Oceanic 6" went back to the island...but that's not true, since Aaron was one of the 6, correct?
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:26 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Because it was within the walls of the security/magnetic fence, right? So Ben let Smokey in via underground tunnels (which still had the water barrier to keep Smokey out until Ben drained it).
Yeah, I kind of worked that out. Makes sense now.
quote:
Also, I am forgetting...where is Aaron in all this? I watched teh three hours in a hotel room on a shitty TV (with shitty volume), and was interrupted by a phone call in the second half of the LA X episode. I noticed in the recap that they said the "Oceanic 6" went back to the island...but that's not true, since Aaron was one of the 6, correct?
Aaron ends up with his grandmother, not back on the island. I think he's important though. Wasn't he the first child born on the island in a long time?
In the alternate timeline, I guess he's still on his way to adoption as we meet Claire with Kate's escape. Unless Kate ends up killing Claire too in her carelessness, as she did her childhood friend.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:26 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
But how could it have been the same reality? It wasn't like he was disappearing from in front of the soldiers in the military training. Or was he? (I don't remember)
It was his consciousness disappearing, not his body. I kind of think about it like the theory of the observer--nothing exists unless there is something there to observe it. Desmond's consciousness is the observer in this case. After he "leaps" in time, the soldiers are not there to see him disappear because at that moment they do not exist. The only reality is where Desmond is conscious.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:26 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Still thinking... do we know if the fence really did anything to Smokey? Maybe it was there for the others only? But apparently not Richard? Maybe there was an ash ring or something around the Dharma initiative?
Well, in this thread some have speculated that the fence does nothing to Smokey, but he pretends that it does to gain control over them. I don't buy that I don't believe. I seem to remember one specific time when Smokey tried to cross the fence, and was bounced back from its energy. That leads me to assume that the fence actually was a way to keep him/it out.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:29 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Also, I am forgetting...where is Aaron in all this? I watched teh three hours in a hotel room on a shitty TV (with shitty volume), and was interrupted by a phone call in the second half of the LA X episode. I noticed in the recap that they said the "Oceanic 6" went back to the island...but that's not true, since Aaron was one of the 6, correct?
Kate gave him to Claire's mom before she went back to the island
ETA: hit submit to quick...He is one of the 6. Maybe Aaron not going back is why when they did go back it was all messed up with some in real time and some in the 70's
This post was edited on 2/4/10 at 11:32 am
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:29 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I noticed in the recap that they said the "Oceanic 6" went back to the island...but that's not true, since Aaron was one of the 6, correct?
He wasn't on the Oceanic flight(he hadn't been born yet), so he wasn't a member of Oceanic 6.
Posted on 2/4/10 at 11:31 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
remember, his body collapsed on the stairs & in Ferriday's office, and on the boat
his consciousness was moving thru his own timeline, his body was not
Right, that's what I meant. There were two actual "Desmond bodies," and his consciousness was travelling through both. We agree on that. What I was saying was that they were alternate realities (with sepeerate consciousnesses) that became intertwined into one until he got his Constant. Once that happened, all was back to "normal" (with each living its own life). the reason I think this is because it's not like Desmond was in a coma in one reality while his consciousness resides in the other...there was duality. In the "island one" he was in the hatch pressing the buttons, chilling with Jack et all, etc...and in the "real world one" he was in the monastery, in the military, with Penny, etc. Which is kinda what Faraday explained about the multiple realities/universes thing.
I'm not sure if that makes sense...I feel like I'm not explaining it like it sounds in my head.
quote:
It was his consciousness disappearing, not his body. I kind of think about it like the theory of the observer--nothing exists unless there is something there to observe it. Desmond's consciousness is the observer in this case. After he "leaps" in time, the soldiers are not there to see him disappear because at that moment they do not exist. The only reality is where Desmond is conscious.
That's interesting, but I'm not sure I agree with that. Otherwise, why would it randomly be soldiers? There would be no rhyme or reason to it. I think I lean more toward that was what would have happened had there been no island (and all the shite that came with it) in Dez's life.
This post was edited on 2/4/10 at 11:34 am
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