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Message
re: The Next Batman Villians---My Take---
Posted on 7/30/08 at 7:33 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 7/30/08 at 7:33 pm to H-Town Tiger
I've said before that Riddler and Bane are probably the top tier for the next film. I think there are only a few other options, but not Catwoman or Penguin. They are terribly lacking when it comes to villains.
Nolan's Batman films are about (succinctly):
A) Organized Crime
B) Batman as a symbol
C) Gotham as a city crumbling from within
Now with the end of DK, you could assume that Gotham gets better because they focus on chasing Batman, so where could Nolan go?
The next villain has to be, again, entrenched in organized crime. Nolan has made it clear that this is what Batman fights. There are no superheros, no world conspiracies, no super-villains with dumb plans.
I could see a female villain, as the movies have lacked a strong female presence. There are three choices then Harley Quinn, Catwoman, Poison Ivy. Harley would be a joker story, so no. Catwoman and Poison Ivy both have a chance.
But....
I'm not saying this should be the choice, nor would it be the best choice, and Nolan has done a fantastic job of choosing villains anyways, but here's my case for Mr. Freeze as a possibility.
First off, he would have to retool the character, much like he did Ras Al-Ghul. What non-readers don't know is that Al-Ghul is immortal in the comics. He returns to "Lazarus pits" to regenerate and keep himself young. He's hundreds of years old (remember the Rome comment), has amassed vast knowledge and wealth. That's what makes him such a good opponent for Bats. Now Nolan, rightly so, left all of that out. Nolan's world is far more grounded in the real. So what can you do about Freeze?
He's a crime boss, his wife is in suspended animation (real, although flawed technology and not more of a stretch than the vaporizer from Begins). It's really that simple. Freeze was "cold" in relation to everything but his wife. You can retain that.
He could be pulling off crimes only to amass a fortune to save her with research. Maybe he could have a competing corporation to Wayne? Maybe he could feel so much sympathy that he lives in the cold, hence his name? he doesn't necessarily have to walk around in a giant suit. To be a compelling character, he needs a freeze gun as much as Al-Ghul needs a Lazarus pit. There are tons of ways to work a Mr. Freeze character.
Heck, I could see Nolan pulling off a form of Clayface even. He's done a great job of fitting villains to his world, and I don't see him making a bad choice. But the character has to fit his tone, his world and his ideas. He's taken freedom to alter characters as such, and I don't see him stopping.
Nolan's Batman films are about (succinctly):
A) Organized Crime
B) Batman as a symbol
C) Gotham as a city crumbling from within
Now with the end of DK, you could assume that Gotham gets better because they focus on chasing Batman, so where could Nolan go?
The next villain has to be, again, entrenched in organized crime. Nolan has made it clear that this is what Batman fights. There are no superheros, no world conspiracies, no super-villains with dumb plans.
I could see a female villain, as the movies have lacked a strong female presence. There are three choices then Harley Quinn, Catwoman, Poison Ivy. Harley would be a joker story, so no. Catwoman and Poison Ivy both have a chance.
But....
I'm not saying this should be the choice, nor would it be the best choice, and Nolan has done a fantastic job of choosing villains anyways, but here's my case for Mr. Freeze as a possibility.
First off, he would have to retool the character, much like he did Ras Al-Ghul. What non-readers don't know is that Al-Ghul is immortal in the comics. He returns to "Lazarus pits" to regenerate and keep himself young. He's hundreds of years old (remember the Rome comment), has amassed vast knowledge and wealth. That's what makes him such a good opponent for Bats. Now Nolan, rightly so, left all of that out. Nolan's world is far more grounded in the real. So what can you do about Freeze?
He's a crime boss, his wife is in suspended animation (real, although flawed technology and not more of a stretch than the vaporizer from Begins). It's really that simple. Freeze was "cold" in relation to everything but his wife. You can retain that.
He could be pulling off crimes only to amass a fortune to save her with research. Maybe he could have a competing corporation to Wayne? Maybe he could feel so much sympathy that he lives in the cold, hence his name? he doesn't necessarily have to walk around in a giant suit. To be a compelling character, he needs a freeze gun as much as Al-Ghul needs a Lazarus pit. There are tons of ways to work a Mr. Freeze character.
Heck, I could see Nolan pulling off a form of Clayface even. He's done a great job of fitting villains to his world, and I don't see him making a bad choice. But the character has to fit his tone, his world and his ideas. He's taken freedom to alter characters as such, and I don't see him stopping.
1
Posted on 7/30/08 at 7:49 pm to LSUDonkeyKong
quote:
I can't see them doing the Penguin. He's too silly. I think they could develop the Riddler into a darker character
???????????????????????????????????
ok so u c the penguin as silly and the riddler as possibly being a dark character?
hmm the peguin already is a dark character and the riddler is about as silly as u can get.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 7:54 pm to iwyLSUiwy
i think Nolan has in mind already who he wants. I like your take on making Freeze more realistic, but i doubt Nolan wants any part of him. Personally I think the ovious choice is the Riddler. i used to be a big proponent of Bane, but the whole pumping up his muscles with venom thing might be a bit too much. Making the Riddler an egomanical genius trying to outsmart Batman sounds more like something Nolan would be interested in doing.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 8:21 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
What non-readers don't know is that Al-Ghul is immortal in the comics. He returns to "Lazarus pits" to regenerate and keep himself young. He's hundreds of years old (remember the Rome comment), has amassed vast knowledge and wealth. That's what makes him such a good opponent for Bats. Now Nolan, rightly so, left all of that out. Nolan's world is far more grounded in the real.
NICE! thnx for the good info.
quote:
I could see Nolan pulling off a form of Clayface even.
not familiar with him. whats he all about
Posted on 7/30/08 at 8:26 pm to TheChamp
quote:
i think Nolan has in mind already who he wants. I like your take on making Freeze more realistic, but i doubt Nolan wants any part of him.
Possibly, but I think Nolan fits his villain to the story, not the other way around. And if he needs an extremely tragic figure, that's his best bet.
quote:
Personally I think the ovious choice is the Riddler.
He would most naturally fit into the world without much alteration, yes.
quote:
i used to be a big proponent of Bane, but the whole pumping up his muscles with venom thing might be a bit too much.
Lazarus Pit. You don't need the chemical pumping side of Bane. Bane was a villain who studied Batman intently before he truly attacked (much like Batman does, finds a weakness), and that's why he beat him. Bane was all about process and analysis. Use that instead.
quote:
Making the Riddler an egomanical genius trying to outsmart Batman sounds more like something Nolan would be interested in doing.
Maybe. Depends on what story Nolan is going to try and tell next.
This post was edited on 7/30/08 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 7/30/08 at 8:54 pm to Freauxzen
Are they even doing another???
I head this one was pretty much it..for the time being...meaning they might change their minds in the future but as of right now this was the last one...
I head this one was pretty much it..for the time being...meaning they might change their minds in the future but as of right now this was the last one...
Posted on 7/30/08 at 8:57 pm to TIGERSofCHAOS
quote:
Are they even doing another???
I head this one was pretty much it..for the time being...meaning they might change their minds in the future but as of right now this was the last one...
Principle cast is signed on for three, and no one is getting younger. Finish it up as 3 or 4 movies then end it, but not now. Can't see the studio letting them sit out more than 3 years with the amount of cash DK is raking in.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:00 pm to Freauxzen
Thats what i figured...but sometimes its not bout the money..know what i mean?
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:03 pm to TIGERSofCHAOS
quote:
Thats what i figured...but sometimes its not bout the money..know what i mean?
Sometimes maybe, but that's never the case with Hollywood.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:33 pm to Freauxzen
I will make a case for Bane. He was the mob boss at one point and was a very well written character. He is very smart and only becomes all powerfull because of the Venom. There is no reason he has to have the roided up look the whole movie. He could just use it toward the end and then end the batman.
If Nolan would hold true to the comic book Bane he could be the one that gives Nolan the out he needs to leave the series. Bane leads the mob and then breaks the bat.
Exit stage left of Nolan and his Batman Universe
If Nolan would hold true to the comic book Bane he could be the one that gives Nolan the out he needs to leave the series. Bane leads the mob and then breaks the bat.
Exit stage left of Nolan and his Batman Universe
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:39 pm to Vood
I like Bane as the villian more than any of the other choices. But if they cast Deebo as him, I will be very dissapointed. First off the dude is like 50. I can't see a old dude breaking Batman's back. I like the idea of using an average sized actor to set up the story, and at the climax, let Bane inject the venom to make him go crazy.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:44 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
I like the idea of using an average sized actor to set up the story, and at the climax, let Bane inject the venom to make him go crazy.
If Bane is the villian he cant use Tiny because Ledger nailed the joker and set the bar really high for the villians.
IMHO you need someone who hasnt played evil roles before, so you cant say actor x always plays these parts. Kinda like what he did with Ledger, everyone was upset he was the pick and now everyone is calling Nolan a genius.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 9:49 pm to Vood
quote:
But if they cast Deebo as him, I will be very dissapointed. First off the dude is like 50.
Bane being from South America is a pretty big part of his character. Doubt they would go the route of making him a black prisoner from Arkham. If they could get Benicio Del Toro possibly for the role I might be able to jump on board. Now that I think about it Javier Bardem would be perfect for Bane. He's got a big enough frame i think that it wouldn't look cheesy.
This post was edited on 7/30/08 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 7/30/08 at 10:06 pm to TheChamp
quote:
Now that I think about it Javier Bardem would be perfect for Bane. He's got a big enough frame i think that it wouldn't look cheesy.
Bingo.
Posted on 7/30/08 at 10:38 pm to LSUDonkeyKong
whatever villain they use, it will have a human element. try not to reach out there people
Posted on 7/30/08 at 10:46 pm to CornDogCologne
Yea and hopefully Bane breaks Bale for beating his mom and sis.. 
Posted on 7/31/08 at 12:00 pm to LSUbacchus81
I don't know where I read it (maybe on TD) but someone was guessing that Anthony Michael Hall will be the Ridder. Anyone agree? disagree? I thought it made a little sense since he had the small part as the reporter.
Posted on 7/31/08 at 12:27 pm to LSUbacchus81
quote:
Yea and hopefully Bane breaks Bale for beating his mom and sis..
Seems like I heard something to the effect that the police thought the whole mess...the charges...were fishy...as in bogus. That's odd...if true. Anyone have more 411?
Posted on 7/31/08 at 2:20 pm to LSU ATX
quote:
Anthony Michael Hall will be the Ridder
I can't really see that since he had that bit part, but maybe.
Posted on 7/31/08 at 2:21 pm to TIGERSofCHAOS
quote:
Are they even doing another???
I head this one was pretty much it..for the time being...meaning they might change their minds in the future but as of right now this was the last one...
There is too much money still to be made. 1,2, or even 3 more movies possibly on deck
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