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re: Official 2018 Pelicans Offseason Thread
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:06 am to 50_Tiger
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:06 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
WTF why would we ever do this without it including LeBron
I'm not saying the Pels would do it, I'm saying that's what Boogie going to Cleveland would have to look like. But if the Pels have 3/$75 as the figure they won't budge from and LeBron tells Cleveland he'll stay if they go get Boogie, the question becomes is TT/JR/Holiday better than Boogie walking and you having just the MLE to replace him with. TT becomes the 3rd big that helps keep AD "not a center". JR has a team option in his last year so he's basically an expiring and can provide minutes on the talent thin wing for the 4-5 months he's a Pel. Justin Holiday is on a good value deal and makes Moore expendable in a trade later.
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Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:11 am to TigerinATL
Any Cleveland S&T would be really complicated because of all of the bad salary. If Boogie is taking $30M, then Kevin Love (and someone else) would likely be going out to a 3rd team.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:24 am to VOR
Only way we get PG13 is when he will be recruited by...Boogie, I suppose.
AD is not a recruiter.
So it is Boogie and PG13. Not Boogie or PG13.
AD is not a recruiter.
So it is Boogie and PG13. Not Boogie or PG13.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:48 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Pels get Tristan Thompson/JR Smith/Justin Holiday
If I'm the Pels, I'm not taking JR. His contract is not an asset, IMO. And, he's guaranteed 3.7 mil on his last year of his contract. Which isn't a big deal, but it's slightly less valuable than a team option.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 10:59 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
If I'm the Pels, I'm not taking JR. His contract is not an asset, IMO. And, he's guaranteed 3.7 mil on his last year of his contract. Which isn't a big deal, but it's slightly less valuable than a team option.
There is no way the Pels are paying the tax for TT/JR. That trade is a non-starter. Also Cleveland is not trading away 2 Rich Paul clients if Bron is staying. I think Kevin Love would be going out. But if the trade has TT/JR going tot he PEls, then the #8 pick would also have to come our way to dump salary.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:11 am to NOFOX
quote:
if the trade has TT/JR going tot he PEls, then the #8 pick would also have to come our way to dump salary.
The problem with that is those 2 alone aren't enough of a salary dump so they'd need other assets to send out to dump other salary. It's just one of those "so complicated it probably won't even get close to happening" situations. Boogie really doesn't have a lot of leverage unless the Lakers or Mavs whiff on their first choices pretty quickly.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 11:23 am to TigerinATL
quote:
The problem with that is those 2 alone aren't enough of a salary dump so they'd need other assets to send out to dump other salary. It's just one of those "so complicated it probably won't even get close to happening" situations. Boogie really doesn't have a lot of leverage unless the Lakers or Mavs whiff on their first choices pretty quickly.
That is why I said if it were to happen, JR/TT are not leaving, Love is the one being moved with Clarkson/Korver or Hill. All things considered, very unlikely as I think on top of the cap situation for the Pels/Cavs, Lebron is gone anyhow.
I am still hoping for a WAS or MIA S&T for Boogie if he wants to leave or demands $30M/yr.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:22 pm to NOFOX
What about a S/T with Milwaukee that includes Middleton?
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:41 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
What about a S/T with Milwaukee that includes Middleton?
Middleton is interesting. I would think they'd value him too highly to trade because 3 and D wings are so in demand right now. But because he's got 1 year left at $13 before he opts out and probably gets Otto Porter money in the low to mid $20s. So unless they want to be the team paying him that much, they probably should trade him this year.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:08 pm to TigerinATL
I just read something weird, that I didn't realize previously (unless the source I read was incorrect).
If a player receives more than a 20% raise in a sign and trade, the team sending out the player uses the player's previous year's salary to determine the amount that they can receive back rather than the newly agreed upon salary. I want to check this with other sources, but that would complicate things a bit.
ETA: It appears that this does apply to the Pels and Cousins, depending on his contract but most assuredly it will.
Per Larry Coon's CBA, number 93:
LINK
So, basically the Pels would use the 18 mil of Cousins' current contract in any sign and trade where he is paid over 21.6 mil, which is pretty much any deal where this will happen. The Pels can only receive 22.5 mil back, but the team receiving Cousins still has to send out matching salary for the salary that they are receiving.
If a player receives more than a 20% raise in a sign and trade, the team sending out the player uses the player's previous year's salary to determine the amount that they can receive back rather than the newly agreed upon salary. I want to check this with other sources, but that would complicate things a bit.
ETA: It appears that this does apply to the Pels and Cousins, depending on his contract but most assuredly it will.
quote:
Base Year Compensation (BYC) is mostly an artifact of previous collective bargaining agreements. Its intent was to prevent teams from signing free agents to new contracts with salaries specifically intended to help facilitate trades. BYC was triggered when a team was over the cap and re-signed a player using the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception with a raise over 20%. Once triggered, BYC temporarily lowered the player's outgoing salary for salary-matching purposes (only), and therefore reduced or eliminated teams' ability to target salaries for trade purposes.
The 2011 CBA mostly eliminated BYC -- in fact, the term "Base Year Compensation" was removed from the agreement entirely. The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 92). If a team re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction, the player's new salary is greater than the minimum, he receives a raise greater than 20%, and the team is at or above the cap immediately after the signing1, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.
For example, a player made $5 million last season, is a Larry Bird free agent, and re-signs with his previous team for $10 million. The team is a taxpayer, and therefore is over the cap following the signing. The signing is part of a sign-and-trade transaction for another team's $10 million player. Since the BYC conditions were satisfied the player's outgoing salary for the trade portion of this sign-and-trade transaction is $5 million. This trade therefore would not be allowed, even though the players' new salaries match, since a taxpaying team cannot trade a $5 million player for a $10 million player. The highest salary this team could acquire in a sign-and-trade arrangement is $6.35 million2.
quote:
The sides also might be able to complete this trade if they both add additional salary to the transaction, or if they include a third team that is able to absorb excess salary.
Per Larry Coon's CBA, number 93:
LINK
So, basically the Pels would use the 18 mil of Cousins' current contract in any sign and trade where he is paid over 21.6 mil, which is pretty much any deal where this will happen. The Pels can only receive 22.5 mil back, but the team receiving Cousins still has to send out matching salary for the salary that they are receiving.
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 6/5/18 at 1:16 pm to Epic Cajun
I went back and looked at the 2017 CBA. This provision is found at Art VII, Sec 6(j)(4) and states:
That makes S&T's with Washington and others already well over the cap a lot more complicated. Basically any S&T would require a 3rd team to take on salary if the receiving team is offering $30M.
quote:
(4) If a Qualifying Veteran Free Agent or Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent and his prior Team enter into a Player Contract, in accordance with Section 6(b)(1) or (3) above, in connection with an agreement to trade the Contract in accordance with Section 8(e) below, the Team’s Team Salary immediately following such Contract signing is above the Salary Cap, and the new Contract to be traded provides for a Salary for the first Season of such new Contract greater than one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the Salary for the last Season of the player’s immediately prior Contract (and greater than the Minimum Player Salary with no Unlikely Bonuses), then for purposes of calculating the assignor Team’s Traded Player Exception, the player’s Salary shall be deemed equal to the greater of (i) the Salary for the last Season of his preceding Contract,
That makes S&T's with Washington and others already well over the cap a lot more complicated. Basically any S&T would require a 3rd team to take on salary if the receiving team is offering $30M.
This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 6/5/18 at 1:30 pm to NOFOX
quote:
for purposes of calculating the assignor Team’s Traded Player Exception, the player’s Salary shall be deemed equal to the greater of (i) the Salary for the last Season of his preceding Contract, or (ii) fifty percent (50%) of the Salary for the first Season of his new Contract.
That also means paying Dallas or the Lakers to sign Boogie as a S&T doesn't get you a trade exception big enough for a Paul George S&T. I'm not saying there's no benefit to the Pels doing a S&T, but it seems unlikely to result in even an Otto Porter level replacement. I'm sure the team and Boogie's agent already knew all this, but from the board's perspective that shifts the leverage back to Boogie. The Pels either need to sign him or be comfortable letting him walk.
Posted on 6/5/18 at 1:49 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
That also means paying Dallas or the Lakers to sign Boogie as a S&T doesn't get you a trade exception big enough for a Paul George S&T. I'm not saying there's no benefit to the Pels doing a S&T, but it seems unlikely to result in even an Otto Porter level replacement. I'm sure the team and Boogie's agent already knew all this, but from the board's perspective that shifts the leverage back to Boogie. The Pels either need to sign him or be comfortable letting him walk.
Definitely complicates things to a degree that makes a S&T pretty unlikley. I do think a S&T could still happen if he really wanted to go to a specific team as we would likley not want to add Boogie-money to our ledger for Not Boogie anyways, so a 3rd team would have to be involved.
My Richardson + Olynyk S&T for Boogie still works if MIA can dump some salary on a 3rd team.
This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:03 pm to NOFOX
May have to get a rockets fan to confirm how valid cyberx is on Clutchfans but he’s supposed to be an insider so take fwiw: he said Boogie wants out of Nola and to sign with the Lakers. Problem is the lakers view him as a backup plan due to his injury if the strike out on the other stars.
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:08 pm to WB504
quote:Wonder why Boogie would want out of NOLA (unless we are low balling him).
May have to get a rockets fan to confirm how valid cyberx is on Clutchfans but he’s supposed to be an insider so take fwiw: he said Boogie wants out of Nola and to sign with the Lakers. Problem is the lakers view him as a backup plan due to his injury if the strike out on the other stars.
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:11 pm to WB504
quote:
May have to get a rockets fan to confirm how valid cyberx is on Clutchfans but he’s supposed to be an insider so take fwiw: he said Boogie wants out of Nola and to sign with the Lakers. Problem is the lakers view him as a backup plan due to his injury if the strike out on the other stars.
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:38 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Wonder why Boogie would want out of NOLA (unless we are low balling him).
I don't think Boogie wants out of NOLA like Eric Gordon wanted out of Nola, but Joel Meyers threw the figure 3/$75 out there. If that's in the ball park of what the Pels offered then Boogie is going to do all he can to get a better offer, either from the Pels or someone else.
This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:39 pm to WB504
WB, got a link to his post?
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:45 pm to Fun Bunch
Isiah Thomas responded to a tweet suggesting him and Boogie team up somewhere this offseason with "let's do it lol"
Their teammates would never see the ball and would be worn the hell out from covering for them on defense.
Their teammates would never see the ball and would be worn the hell out from covering for them on defense.
This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:53 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I don't think Boogie wants out of NOLA like Eric Gordon wanted out of Nola, but Joel Meyers threw the figure 3/$75 out there. If that's in the ball park of what the Pels offered then Boogie is going to do all he can to get a better offer, either from the Pels or someone else.
I think the team succeeding without him and AD getting the accolades he did bothered Boogie combined with the FO's likely pulling of a max offer. If we do offer the max, then he signs here. However if we and LA offer the same $$$, I have no doubt he is going to LA. The problem is that I do believe the Rockets poster in that Boogie is probably LA's 3rd or 4th option and he is going to wait it out.
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