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re: TWolves want to trade Rubio
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:44 pm to BallHawk
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:44 pm to BallHawk
quote:
I think it's a misconception that the entire offense will operate through Boogie a la Joker. I think there will elements or both that offense and Gentry's run and gun style in which Rubio is a solid fit
I'm not saying that running the offense through Boogie means we don't need or we have no use for Rubio, but Rubio is best with the ball in his hands and our offense will make him play more off the ball (probably not by a ton) than he did in Minnesota.
He'd be a much-welcomed addition, however, I do think there are better options for what we are in the market for.
0
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:45 pm to corndeaux
While clearly I'm very much in the Rubio camp I also don't think we need to swing for the third banana so vehemently this year.
More so than Rubio's on court play I like his contract. Getting him and filling out the rest of your roster can make you a playoff team. Not only that it allows you the opportunity to maximize free agency in two years, assuming Boogie and AD stick around, and go after a Klay Thompson, Khris Middleton, etc.
Rubio has also improved dramatically in the last two years offensively. He was very, very good 18-22ft last year. Shot 40% from the field last year. He's also elite from the free throw line albeit he doesn't get there enough.
Hell the experiment very well could fail with him as our PG, ball dominant as he may be, but to me he's the best, conceivable option out there in a land of very limited ones.
More so than Rubio's on court play I like his contract. Getting him and filling out the rest of your roster can make you a playoff team. Not only that it allows you the opportunity to maximize free agency in two years, assuming Boogie and AD stick around, and go after a Klay Thompson, Khris Middleton, etc.
Rubio has also improved dramatically in the last two years offensively. He was very, very good 18-22ft last year. Shot 40% from the field last year. He's also elite from the free throw line albeit he doesn't get there enough.
Hell the experiment very well could fail with him as our PG, ball dominant as he may be, but to me he's the best, conceivable option out there in a land of very limited ones.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:51 pm to BallHawk
Bledsoe has a similar contract to Rubio and the Suns are looking to ship Bledsoe out of Phoenix
Posted on 6/26/17 at 8:53 pm to DeionDeion
Yeah but I'm not sure about Bledsoe's defense. Admittedly, I don't know much about his game on that side of the ball. He's a good offensive player. His injury history is concerning.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:31 pm to BallHawk
The concerns of Bledsoe is mainly injuries and his 3 point shooting (33% this past season but 37% the year before). He's a capable defender due to his speed and quickness.
When you group together all the point guards we have been talking about (Rubio, Rondo, Payton, Collison) and compare their stats, age, salary, and availability, it's hard to not have Bledsoe at the top of the wish list.
When you group together all the point guards we have been talking about (Rubio, Rondo, Payton, Collison) and compare their stats, age, salary, and availability, it's hard to not have Bledsoe at the top of the wish list.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:44 pm to DeionDeion
Looking at Rubio's number he's capable to shoot the 3. Low 30s but again was very good from 18-22 so I see him making strides. I also value defense more than most so I'll take the elite defender versus the capable one. Rubio is also a very good passer and posses high BBIQ. Also think Minny will want less than Phoenix being as they want cap space to go after Lowry, Teague, Hill, or Jrue.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:54 pm to BallHawk
all of y'all are making good arguments
we just don't know what this offense is going to look like and if holiday doesn't work we are shite out of options. At least is someone at half the price doesn't work we can try again
we just don't know what this offense is going to look like and if holiday doesn't work we are shite out of options. At least is someone at half the price doesn't work we can try again
Posted on 6/26/17 at 9:55 pm to BallHawk
if the phoenix staff who kept nash healthy for so long can't keep bledsoe healthy, he's gonna die the second he gets off the plane here.
hard pass.
hard pass.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 10:04 pm to htran90
I'd really like Riddick on this team with Rubio or Bledsoe
Posted on 6/26/17 at 10:06 pm to TigerBehindEnemyLines
Rubio and Riddick would be a nice backcourt for us
Posted on 6/26/17 at 10:15 pm to corndeaux
quote:
The problem isn't just 2 bigs, it's 2 multi-skilled high usage/scoring bigs.
If you're running spread PnR with a ball dominant PG you are not maximizing their prodigious talents. You're forcing them to fit around the PG, who is the lesser player
You're not gonna have Cousins taking the ball up. Jokic is a beast but they also have other playmakers on that team. If you bring Rubio in, and that takes the ball away significantly more than other PGs, that's a problem. But Rubio to me is a high IQ PG that will be able to fit himself into this situation. I think that was part of the problem with Holiday and his struggles. It's well documented that Holiday is effective in set plays but struggles improvising. It'd be great if I had faith these free agent PGs have a high bball IQ, but I just trust the traditional floor generals more than the 18 PPG / 6-8 assist types like Holiday/Teague/G. Hill.
Simply put, my infatuation with Rubio or even a Rondo is that they seem to have a greater understanding of the game and spacing. I don't expect those types of guys to come in and dribble the ball flat. I trust them to adapt and find their roles.
Posted on 6/26/17 at 10:15 pm to BallHawk
Look let's not fool ourselves, Rubio might have shown improvements but he is still a poor shooter. For the first time in his career, he finished this past season with a field goal percentage above 40. Out of all the other guards we have talked about (Bledsoe, Rondo, Collison), not one has finished a season below 40% except Eric Bledsoe in his sophomore season in the NBA. So this "very good/elite from 18-22 feet" is just hogwash because Rubio has his best shooting season yet and still finished with a lower field goal percentage and 3-point percentage than Tim Frazier.
Again Rubio would be welcomed addition and I hope he'd improve his shooting skills. If you want to make a case for him because he's a great defender and passer that's fine, but there is no leg to stand on to support the claim that he is a very good shooter
Again Rubio would be welcomed addition and I hope he'd improve his shooting skills. If you want to make a case for him because he's a great defender and passer that's fine, but there is no leg to stand on to support the claim that he is a very good shooter
This post was edited on 6/26/17 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 6/26/17 at 11:12 pm to DeionDeion
Improving shooter that understands spacing, and is an excellent passer and can handle the ball is IMO what we need. He isn't and has never been a shoot first guy anyway. Let ADDC handle the scoring for us and hopefully a JJ Reddick or another sharpshooter that we can grab off of FA...
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:57 am to Tiger Nation 84
One thing working against us is the fact that I'm sure Minnesota would prefer not to make a team like the Pels better. AD is KATs daddy already. They don't need to improve their competition for those 6-8 spots in the West.
If this offseason was Rubio/Afflalo/shooter + drafting Jackson, I'd be really effing stoked.
If this offseason was Rubio/Afflalo/shooter + drafting Jackson, I'd be really effing stoked.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 7:11 am to ShamelessPel
No one should think that Point Boogie means Cousins is bringing the ball up. Im thinking of the PG more like Fisher on the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.
I agree. I like Rubio. I'm not rending garments or melting if they end up with him. He's a good player and on a cheap, short deal.
Yes, Rubio is a very smart player and can adapt. The problem is that defenses will ignore him off the ball. He has little utility on offense w/o the ball in his hands. The role he would take on is not a great fit for his skills. If you want Rubio to work, he needs the ball. Again, why is Minnesota dumping him now? He's moving off ball and he is a liability there. You can't wave poor shooting off w/ BBIQ.
That doesn't mean he can't fit or it won't work, but that is a legit problem no one is addressing. All due respect to Ballhawk, but 42% on long 2s is something teams will gladly give up to Rubio every time.
And maybe that's a worthwhile compromise if Holiday is out since Rubio has other ways to help and his deal is so cheap and short. But that's not a great fit in my mind
You look at Denver and all of their guys, except Faried and Mudiay (who was out for much of their 2nd half), can shoot. Yes, they have guys who can create off the bounce, but it's often after ball reversals or kick outs. Other than Gallo, not a lot of good ISO creators. The system and spacing makes some of those guys look better than they are off the bounce. That's where the Pels need to get better
And again:
I just think targeting a ball dominant PG, who is not a threat off ball, is a lack of imagination for the Pels. I fully understand that may be the best available option and a guy like Rubio is a good player. It could work splendidly and I'll come back and say I was wrong
But here's the larger point for me:
Talk of being ahead of the curve or zigging instead of zagging is hollow if you're doing the same thing as everyone else w/ different ingredients. If you believe you have to have a perimeter creator/scorer to win in the league, then there is no reason to trade for Cousins in the first place. Don't sell the idea of Davis/Cousins and then not commit to what that actually means
quote:
Rubio to me is a high IQ PG that will be able to fit himself into this situation
I agree. I like Rubio. I'm not rending garments or melting if they end up with him. He's a good player and on a cheap, short deal.
quote:
don't expect those types of guys to come in and dribble the ball flat. I trust them to adapt and find their roles.
Yes, Rubio is a very smart player and can adapt. The problem is that defenses will ignore him off the ball. He has little utility on offense w/o the ball in his hands. The role he would take on is not a great fit for his skills. If you want Rubio to work, he needs the ball. Again, why is Minnesota dumping him now? He's moving off ball and he is a liability there. You can't wave poor shooting off w/ BBIQ.
That doesn't mean he can't fit or it won't work, but that is a legit problem no one is addressing. All due respect to Ballhawk, but 42% on long 2s is something teams will gladly give up to Rubio every time.
And maybe that's a worthwhile compromise if Holiday is out since Rubio has other ways to help and his deal is so cheap and short. But that's not a great fit in my mind
You look at Denver and all of their guys, except Faried and Mudiay (who was out for much of their 2nd half), can shoot. Yes, they have guys who can create off the bounce, but it's often after ball reversals or kick outs. Other than Gallo, not a lot of good ISO creators. The system and spacing makes some of those guys look better than they are off the bounce. That's where the Pels need to get better
And again:
I just think targeting a ball dominant PG, who is not a threat off ball, is a lack of imagination for the Pels. I fully understand that may be the best available option and a guy like Rubio is a good player. It could work splendidly and I'll come back and say I was wrong
But here's the larger point for me:
Talk of being ahead of the curve or zigging instead of zagging is hollow if you're doing the same thing as everyone else w/ different ingredients. If you believe you have to have a perimeter creator/scorer to win in the league, then there is no reason to trade for Cousins in the first place. Don't sell the idea of Davis/Cousins and then not commit to what that actually means
This post was edited on 6/27/17 at 7:25 am
Posted on 6/27/17 at 7:57 am to corndeaux
quote:
Don't sell the idea of Davis/Cousins and then not commit to what that actually means
When AD/DC was working at the end of last year it was unstoppable. You've got 2 players that can draw a double team even when they don't have the ball. The other 3 guys should be spacers and finishers.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 9:14 am to corndeaux
but what does AD/DC really mean?
how many minutes together, and when?
the temptation is going to be to stagger them...then what?
how many minutes together, and when?
the temptation is going to be to stagger them...then what?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 9:21 am to TigerinATL
Look at Rubios 4th quarter stats post all star to get an idea of how he does playing more off ball after adjusting to offense. Ball was in Wiggins hands a lot.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 9:30 am to cgrand
quote:
the temptation is going to be to stagger them...then what?
If Holiday leaves I think it's important to replace him with someone else that is a plus defender. I liked the staggering Gentry did. When Cousins is out play small ball defense with AD at center. When AD is out try to outscore the bench units with Crawford/Boogie surrounded by shooters like Moore/Cunningham.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 9:43 am to NOFOX
quote:
Look at Rubios 4th quarter stats post all star to get an idea of how he does playing more off ball after adjusting to offense. Ball was in Wiggins hands a lot.
On paper I like Rubio as a Jrue replacement because of his defense and he can make up for his lack of shooting a bit with this ability to get to the line twice as often as Jrue. However, the problem with Rubio isn't Rubio but Hill. If Hill improves his shooting, great, if not the Rubio/AD/DC 3 man game will be playing against 4 defenders, 1 of whom will probably be sagging off Rubio. So AD/DC both will be double teamed, the paint will be packed and they'll be daring Rubio/Hill to beat them with jumpers. That doesn't sound like a player grouping that optimizes AD/DC.
This post was edited on 6/27/17 at 9:44 am
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