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re: Yo these are some disappointing threads
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:29 pm to Terrific Tales
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:29 pm to Terrific Tales
For sure, some wild stuff on the board. Lot of critiques based on bias, which is cool if the point is team improvement, but too often comes down to the same ole ... irrational ripping of players/coaches on the team that they're fans of.
0
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:29 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:
Guys what the frick is this?
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:29 pm to NOSHAU
The last thing I’m gonna say is this, the fact that you are actively ignoring me showing you the fact that the stats show BI is actively changing his game to better fit with the squad, and that you still don’t even want to give it a chance, is all I need to know
This post was edited on 12/4/23 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:36 pm to Terrific Tales
Hey guys look another silly Pels thread, this time it was started by someone complaining about too many bad threads. Is irony or hypocrite a better word?
If you’re going to complain about the lack of quality threads, then do us all a favor and start your own thread. Please don’t complain about the lack of quality threads while at the time starting a shite thread. Hypocrite would be better word.
If you’re going to complain about the lack of quality threads, then do us all a favor and start your own thread. Please don’t complain about the lack of quality threads while at the time starting a shite thread. Hypocrite would be better word.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:37 pm to saintslsupels
It's almost 3 and no game thread?????
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:38 pm to saintslsupels
quote:
If you’re going to complain about the lack of quality threads, then do us all a favor and start your own thread. Please don’t complain about the lack of quality threads while at the time starting a shite thread. Hypocrite would be better word.
Wow aren’t you fun. Obviously some people found it funny. I guess not you though
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:38 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:Not a good look on my part, but I can admit when I'm wrong LOL.
No, he quite literally wasn’t. League average was 58.1 and BI was 58.2
I'll say where I got crossed up, in the other thread, I was comparing the last 3 seasons, essentially when we got CJ. And in those 3 seasons BI IS below league average. In this post, I stated last season incorrectly just forgetting that my initial review was over a 3 year span.
So I was 100% wrong, but did the research, posted it before, and here I just said last season instead of last 3 seasons. That's on me.
While the direct point is obviously off, the main premise still stands. Whether BI was at .580 and slightly below or .582 and slightly above or more to the point, over an even large sample size, BI IS below average...but it all means 1 thing either way, BI's efficiency is simply not good enough to be a volume scorer as a #2 on a title contending team. He could get away with that if he were at elite at defense or had other elite skills to make up for it.
quote:Except for the points where they were?
Listen, first off no time in the splash bros dynasty were either of them at 80% assisted shots.
Check out Klay around 2016, before and after. 75% of his 2s and 95% of his 3s were assisted, and nearly half his shots were 3s. So yes, there is a precedence for a #2 who replies on others to create shots for him.
quote:I'm not saying we wan to be exactly like GS, but our offense is also supposed to be reliant on ball movement, who on this team is the biggest abuser of stopping said ball movement?
Second off, that offense relies on off ball movement and quick screening action
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:42 pm to shel311
quote:
Check out Klay around 2016, before and after. 75% of his 2s and 95% of his 3s were assisted, and nearly half his shots were 3s. So yes, there is a precedence for a #2 who replies on others to create shots for him.
Where are you getting that? I was trying to find data for assisted shot % and I couldn’t find anything
quote:
I'm not saying we wan to be exactly like GS, but our offense is also supposed to be reliant on ball movement, who on this team is the biggest abuser of stopping said ball movement?
I agree that this has been the case in the past. I also say that it’s undeniable the stats show BI is making an active effort to change this.
Changing habits takes time. I’m not saying BI will 100% work on this team long term as a #2 option
I am saying that I’m not even close to ready to give up on it yet
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:46 pm to Terrific Tales
A little bias with BI bro
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:46 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:He hasn't changed his shot profile, it's actually gotten worse. And that is why he remains a below average volume scorer. Until he changes his shot profile to include more 3s and more shots at the rim, that won't change. He's also give both you and me exactly zero reason to believe he will change that shot profile as mid/long range game as a % of total shots is at an all time high, tied with last season if I recall.
the fact that you are actively ignoring me showing you the fact that the stats show BI is actively changing his game to better fit with the squad
His shots at the rim is at an all time low.
His 3pt game as a % of total shots isn't an all time low, but it is wayyyyyyyyy below where he was 3 and 4 seasons ago, not even close.
quote:BI is in year 8 and doing the literal opposite of what the coaches have talked about them wanting him to do, do we have to give him another 8 years to fix it before we, or a $300mil contract to see if it's all gonna work out and he finally makes those changes after a decade in the league?
and that you still don’t even want to give it a chance, is all I need to know
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:52 pm to shel311
quote:
His shots at the rim is at an all time low. His 3pt game as a % of total shots isn't an all time low, but it is wayyyyyyyyy below where he was 3 and 4 seasons ago, not even close.
His drives are at an all time high and so are his potential assists
He will still BI, his shot chart will still always favor the middies. The point is he’s penetrating and getting open looks for people.
As his role becomes less forced (more shots for CJ and Trey, who again have been missing and have a massive impact on how much BI has to force things) his efficiency should start to climb
As far as the 3pt shots, yea I can’t explain that one. All I can say is I don’t think BI just suddenly forgot how to shoot 3s, and I expect his numbers to go back to at least close to where they were
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:52 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:BRef. I can't get the # just as a total. But if it's mid to high 70s on 2s and mid 90s on 3s and you shoot nearly half your shot as 3s, that's going to be over 80%.
Where are you getting that? I was trying to find data for assisted shot % and I couldn’t find anything
quote:I agree in the sense that BI seems to be less of a ball stopper this season than in year's past. That's progress, but ultimately, he IS still a ball stopper. Less of a ball stopper than before is progress, but it is not good or what we need IMO.
I agree that this has been the case in the past. I also say that it’s undeniable the stats show BI is making an active effort to change this.
quote:Let's put a bow on this. You just conceded maybe BI isn't the #2 like I said I already think he isn't. You think he might get there and also might not get there, and IMO I think he won't get there. You're saying you're not ready to give up on that idea, and I think we should give up on that idea, certainly before we give him $300mil.
Changing habits takes time. I’m not saying BI will 100% work on this team long term as a #2 option
I am saying that I’m not even close to ready to give up on it yet
Is that difference really just the difference between me being some BI hater, or is it maybe just maybe that 2 people have differing opinions and that's perfectly fine and no one to be hater because they don't agree exactly with your opinion and timeline on when to believe BI can't be a viable #2?
Posted on 12/4/23 at 2:55 pm to shel311
quote:
Let's put a bow on this. You just conceded maybe BI isn't the #2 like I said I already think he isn't. You think he might get there and also might not get there, and IMO I think he won't get there. You're saying you're not ready to give up on that idea, and I think we should give up on that idea, certainly before we give him $300mil.
Well if there’s one thing we can agree on, it’s that at this moment we cannot pay BI 300 mil. Good thing he has a while to prove us wrong with a healthy roster taking the pressure off him, again something he has never had
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:02 pm to shel311
BI has made more than 2 3 pointers only twice this entire season. He has attempted 6 or more only 3 times this season. He has made zero 3 pointers in 3 of the last 4 games. He has made 3 total 3 pointers in the last 5 games. The numbers just don't show that BI is changing his game in a positive way for what the team needs. It is going in the opposite direction. In fact, it is alarming how incapable of producing at the 3 point line he is. The issue is that BI wants a max extension at the end of this season. The team just can't afford to give him that contract if this is what his production is.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:10 pm to ThePistol
quote:Correct, his shot profile is awful.
BI has made more than 2 3 pointers only twice this entire season. He has attempted 6 or more only 3 times this season. He has made zero 3 pointers in 3 of the last 4 games. He has made 3 total 3 pointers in the last 5 games. The numbers just don't show that BI is changing his game in a positive way for what the team needs. It is going in the opposite direction. In fact, it is alarming how incapable of producing at the 3 point line he is. The issue is that BI wants a max extension at the end of this season. The team just can't afford to give him that contract if this is what his production is.
Let's put it this way...BI is making the long range 2 at 54%, his career avg is 43.9%. He is THAT much more efficient making the long range 2, and yet he's STILL a below average scorer. What's going to happen when that number regresses to the mean? Because there's zero chance he finishes the season at 54%, that just won't happen.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:23 pm to shel311
quote:
Correct, his shot profile is awful
Yes but like there’s absolutely no reason to believe he will continue to shoot a career low in 3pt attempts and keep shooting 29% from 3
In fact I would say the odds are heavily in favor of the opposite
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:32 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:Agree with only the latter. I think I said above I have no concerns in the 29%, he's too good a shooter for that to stay low.
Yes but like there’s absolutely no reason to believe he will continue to shoot a career low in 3pt attempts and keep shooting 29% from 3
But the # of attempts, I don't see why you'd say you have no reason to believe he'll continue to shoot them at such a low rate. He's actually not at a career low. He's right around the same rate he's shot the 3 at the past 2 seasons. So we're on year 3 of him not shooting enough 3s. Maybe he breaks that streak, but I just don't know why we'd be so confident that he will, especially given that we know the org has spoken with him and is on record saying they want him to take more, and he still won't.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:34 pm to shel311
quote:
While the direct point is obviously off, the main premise still stands. Whether BI was at .580 and slightly below or .582 and slightly above or more to the point, over an even large sample size, BI IS below average...but it all means 1 thing either way, BI's efficiency is simply not good enough to be a volume scorer as a #2 on a title contending team. He could get away with that if he were at elite at defense or had other elite skills to make up for it.
Just want to point out that Khris Middleton has a career 55.6 TS% comapred to BI's 55.8%
During their championship season he was at 58.8 TS% during the regular season and in the playoffs he was 54.8 TS%
Jason Terry was at 54.5 TS% during the regular season and 60.4 TS% during the playoffs when they won it. Career 55.4%
Jamal Murray was at 53.5 TS% during the regular season last year, and 58.6 during the playoffs, Career 55.9 TS%
Kyrie Irving was 54 TS% during the regular season and 57.4% during the playoffs when the Cavs won it. Career 58.0 TS%.
BI's been at 58% or better 3 of the last 4 seasons.
stop comparing BI to Giannis and Lebron and Tatum and KD. That's not who he is, nor who he needs to be.
And he's not a 3&D Wing player either, so don't compare him to guys who get 60-80 percent of their points assisted on.
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:39 pm to MrBarry
You gotta stop saying that the people who want him to shoot more than 4 3s a game are trying to make him a 3&D player 
Posted on 12/4/23 at 3:50 pm to shel311
quote:
You gotta stop saying that the people who want him to shoot more than 4 3s a game are trying to make him a 3&D player
Well it needs to be said when you see people compare him to Trey, or expect Trey to take his place. Or to Klay Thompson. That's not who he is, and that's not something he does in our offense, just sit on the 3 point line waiting for a pass so he can shoot an open 3.
I have a lot of faith in Trey as well, but he's not BI offensively.
Yes 4.2 3PA per game is too low, but he doens't need to take more than 6 based on what he does for this team. BI sitting at the 3 point line waiting for C&S 3's is not a good use of his abilities, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't take those shots when he gets them, i just think he doesn't see them that often in our offense.
Healthy Middleton from 2018 to 2022 averaged 5.7 at 38.6%
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