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re: Why I think we shouldn't trade for Malcolm Butler
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:43 am to knowingabyss
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:43 am to knowingabyss
quote:
I value Butler for a completely different reason. This defense has young and hungry guys, what we need is leadership who has won and knows what it takes to win it all.
And the move plays into "win now" mode as well. We are not a patient franchise so we never seem to value a lot of draft picks.
0
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:49 am to L.A.
Whose to say we won't trade for Butler AND draft a corner in the first round? Breaux, Williams, and Swann have all missed significant time due to injuries. Behind them are journeymen. If we are able to keep #11 and #32, there is a chance that we go DE/CB.
I would feel damn good about our chances going into the season if that was the case.
I would feel damn good about our chances going into the season if that was the case.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:50 am to St Augustine
The simple question of why didn't the Pats sign him long term instead of Gilmore off the street is HUGE to me. Many questioned some holes and erraticness in Gilmore's game. Yet the Pats, who do not spend that heavily too often on FA, chose him over Butler.
If you are not of the all-in mentality like Aug then definitely no on ANY trade. Franchise building would be getting one that you expect to compete for starting reps at #32 or 42. Breaux, Williams, Moore with a #32 or 42 guy ain't too bad. Gotta say as much as Crawley and Webb were thrown into the fire last year they played better than I expected. Good experience for backup players.
If you are not of the all-in mentality like Aug then definitely no on ANY trade. Franchise building would be getting one that you expect to compete for starting reps at #32 or 42. Breaux, Williams, Moore with a #32 or 42 guy ain't too bad. Gotta say as much as Crawley and Webb were thrown into the fire last year they played better than I expected. Good experience for backup players.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:54 am to BilJ
quote:
our window is closing anyway, we don't have time to wait on a CB to potentially develop. Where would you rather spend the cash right now?
exactly
we have the cap room now to make the move and MAYBE have a 3-year window (probably more like 1-2)
his salary is irrelevant in the big picture b/c when Brees goes, we're done (and we can afford it now)
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Honestly I thought our window was closed but with this offseason and the Butler move I see a 1-2 year window open.
If we are going to do it needs to be now.
If we are going to do it needs to be now.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:57 am to blueslover
quote:
The simple question of why didn't the Pats sign him long term instead of Gilmore off the street is HUGE to me. Many questioned some holes and erraticness in Gilmore's game. Yet the Pats, who do not spend that heavily too often
I don't think this can be overstated. Someone had linked on here a few weeks ago that the patriots told Butler they wouldn't pay over 10m for a cb. I have no idea if that's true, but if it is then it's pretty telling to me that they would give an outsider who is of the same age this massive deal over the guy they have molded in their system for years now.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:59 am to L.A.
quote:
The simple question of why didn't the Pats sign him long term instead of Gilmore off the street is HUGE to me. Many questioned some holes and erraticness in Gilmore's game. Yet the Pats, who do not spend that heavily too often on FA, chose him over Butler.
The Saints should sit on this statement offering a second round pick to NE and 11.5 to Butler. Recite it to both parties if either balk at the offer. Stand firm, don't give in, and fricking use the 32 on a corner if they walk away from the table. I'd be totally ok with it.
quote:
No, I get that and I already said it's a valid argument. But Tom Brady is older than Brees and the Pats are evidently going to let Butler walk rather than pay him. In fact, they preferred to pay FA money to Stephon Gilmore rather than Butler. So they'll get a 1st round pick as compensation and choose a more cost effective CB to replace Butler in a draft that is the deepest CB class in a decade. There's a reason the Pats contend for the Super Bowl every year and the Saints have only been once in 50 years. This trade is a good example.
/thread
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 10:04 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:03 am to whodatfan
I prefer to think we trade Cooks for a 1st round 32nd pick DE or CB.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:09 am to goatmilker
hey guys, just wanna say how much I am enjoying reading so many sane comments and reasonable discussions. Board general football IQ seems to have been diminishing as the team's record has slipped.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:25 am to St Augustine
Belichick and Gilmore were likely quite familiar with each other. There could have been a mutual infatuation there.
The negotiations may have been easier to get done. He's a year younger, more gifted combine-wise, etc.
Just speculating, and it's not a glowing Butler endorsement, but not necessarily a knock on him. The Pats make moves like this every year. It's sometimes almost like they prefer the new guy from another team when talking comparable players.
The negotiations may have been easier to get done. He's a year younger, more gifted combine-wise, etc.
Just speculating, and it's not a glowing Butler endorsement, but not necessarily a knock on him. The Pats make moves like this every year. It's sometimes almost like they prefer the new guy from another team when talking comparable players.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:25 am to blueslover
There's zero doubt in my mind that Butler is 200% a safer pick and 300% going to be a better on field talent the next 3 years as we are contending for a Super Bowl under Drew's last year's. a best case scenario for a cb at 32 still needs to give him 2 years to develop and grow. Butler is a CB that had to cover WR's and it's not like New England has all pro safeties covering his arse behind him.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 11:11 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:48 am to Chad504boy
Da fuq kinda chopped up arse post is dis? ^^^^^ 
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:49 am to Chad504boy
And the deep safety was almost always shading Logan Ryan's side, leaving Butler on an island and he still did well.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:10 am to whodatfan
When posting on iPhone it's just is what it's is. Keyboard posting is so's much Betta.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:56 am to Chad504boy
400%
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:07 pm to whodatfan
The reason that they did not sign Butler and signed Gilmore is the same reason that they are superbowl contenders each year.
What would you rather?
Gilmore and Cooks or
Butler?
Aftwr this trade is all said and done they will have Gilmore and Cooks at pretty much the same price as just signing Butler back
They used Butler as a negotiation ploy to gain a near elite player in cooks back and just signed a good CB for FREE in Gilmore.
What would you rather?
Gilmore and Cooks or
Butler?
Aftwr this trade is all said and done they will have Gilmore and Cooks at pretty much the same price as just signing Butler back
They used Butler as a negotiation ploy to gain a near elite player in cooks back and just signed a good CB for FREE in Gilmore.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:14 pm to bonethug0108
anyone who thinks we should pass on butler, just because it might require giving up #32, is not really interested in the saints wining games. they are just bored and posting out frustration over why its taking so long to complete the trade. we aren't strapped for cash this year, we have the money to fix this thing, yet people are acting like they WANT to go 7-9 again by having a defense that lets teams score faster on us then brees can score to out pace them.
butler is worth giving up 32 for, but I don't think we will have to do that. it will most likely be we have to just give up equal compensation value to it to get him.
anyone who says we shouldn't get butler, have just given up on winning, and are of the mindset they want to build the team for cheap over the years with a team full of rookies, but then if you do that, brees is gone after next year, so if you don't want to win now, then say bye bye to brees because he all but said he is out of here if they go 7-9 again.
butler is worth giving up 32 for, but I don't think we will have to do that. it will most likely be we have to just give up equal compensation value to it to get him.
anyone who says we shouldn't get butler, have just given up on winning, and are of the mindset they want to build the team for cheap over the years with a team full of rookies, but then if you do that, brees is gone after next year, so if you don't want to win now, then say bye bye to brees because he all but said he is out of here if they go 7-9 again.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:19 pm to bonethug0108
If Drew was gone, I would think it was foolish to do the Butler deal.
But with a 1-3 year window at best, smart FA deals this offseason, and a lot of question at CB...we kind of have to do it at this point. We can't rely on a rookie CB to play a prominent role. Honestly you can't rely on any rookie for much year 1.
I'm hoping we can hit some grand slams in the draft, especially in the pass rush department.
But with a 1-3 year window at best, smart FA deals this offseason, and a lot of question at CB...we kind of have to do it at this point. We can't rely on a rookie CB to play a prominent role. Honestly you can't rely on any rookie for much year 1.
I'm hoping we can hit some grand slams in the draft, especially in the pass rush department.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:43 pm to L.A.
Reasons 1-3
Delvin breaux -injury prone
Pj Williams - mush head
Damian swann- mush head
I mean we literally have 3 CBs that are one hit away from never playing football again. Who honestly aren't that good to begin with.
Even if Butler regresses (which is likely, he was a top 5 rated CB last year) to a top 20 or so CB, he's still our best player in the secondary and a borderline CB1 in the NFL. Throwing a rookie in on an already shite defense isn't going to help win in the current window we have
Delvin breaux -injury prone
Pj Williams - mush head
Damian swann- mush head
I mean we literally have 3 CBs that are one hit away from never playing football again. Who honestly aren't that good to begin with.
Even if Butler regresses (which is likely, he was a top 5 rated CB last year) to a top 20 or so CB, he's still our best player in the secondary and a borderline CB1 in the NFL. Throwing a rookie in on an already shite defense isn't going to help win in the current window we have
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