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re: Darwin’s Doubt: the mathematical problem of evolution and DNA
Posted on 1/1/26 at 8:49 am to NorCali
Posted on 1/1/26 at 8:49 am to NorCali
quote:
Ok, where does it all begin then? If no beginning nothing can evolve.
So theory of evolution just starts at some convenient point post-existence of nucleated cells without having to worry about where they “evolved” from.
What an utter Non sequitor
So now you admit that you were ignorant about the theory to begin with (even though you had no problem confidently stating your opinion about what you thought it said), and now that you’re no longer ignorant about the theory, you’re going to call it a non sequitur.
1
Posted on 1/1/26 at 8:50 am to Rebel
quote:
The scientific method.
Tell us how.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 11:21 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Its the theory of evolution, not the law of evolution. You aren't really into science if you aren't into challenging and proving or disproving theory.
Scientific me says the timeline must be incorrect. Normal me says God and moves on to worry about something else.
I'm late to the party, but DownshiftAndFloorIt gets it. I have personally been a part of pushing the bleeding edge of science beyond what was previously believed to have been "known". Science has NEVER been advanced by blind acceptance of the status quo.
I will say this - I have used genetic algorithms extensively in computational optimization problems. They are still used today to train and develop AIs. They work by simulating survival of the fittest with absolute ruthlessness, with random mutations thrown in to explore boundaries with the hopes of creating a "fortunate monster". All I can say from that experience is that I have always felt that the timeline for the THEORY of Evolution was not possible. Too many iterations, too many failures, couldn't work even on a planetary scale.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:20 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
So now you admit that you were ignorant about the theory to begin with (even though you had no problem confidently stating your opinion about what you thought it said), and now that you’re no longer ignorant about the theory, you’re going to call it a non sequitur.
Nice deflection.
Explain how life on this planet began via evolution from ooze, single cell organisms, nucleated organisms, multicellular organisms, etc. Oh and explain where DNA showed up.
Then we can talk about ignorance.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:32 pm to TheRealTigerHorn
quote:
All I can say from that experience is that I have always felt that the timeline for the THEORY of Evolution was not possible.
Why did you emphasize the word “theory” that way?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:47 pm to NorCali
quote:
Nice deflection.
Explain how life on this planet began via evolution from ooze, single cell organisms, nucleated organisms, multicellular organisms, etc. Oh and explain where DNA showed up.
Then we can talk about ignorance.
Wait, you just got finished stating that you now understand that the theory of evolution doesn’t speak to that subject, but now you’re asking me to use the theory to explain that subject. That’s certainly one way to go about doing things.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 1:52 pm to Mo Jeaux
People get abiogenesis and evolution confused and comingled.
This post was edited on 1/1/26 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/1/26 at 2:08 pm to BigNastyTiger417
quote:“Similar doesn’t mean same” is the entire point. If the DNA were the same, it would be an exact copy of the human it’s being compared to, and nothing would ever evolve. Evolution works through small, cumulative genetic changes over long periods producing large differences, not through wholesale redesigns.
Similar doesn’t mean same. DNA can be very close, yet miles apart.
Correct. Evolution has been proven. Human evolution has not been proven.
You’ve boxed yourself in by saying evolution has been proven while claiming human evolution hasn’t, because that means you believe there is a kind of evidence sufficient to prove evolution. So even if you’re unwilling or unable to say what would count as evidence for human evolution, what evidence convinced you evolution is real, since you made the positive claim that it’s proven?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 2:20 pm to Darth_Vader
Now do God created everything in less than one week.
By the way, no one claims we descended from apes or monkeys. The claim is that we share common ancestors.
By the way, no one claims we descended from apes or monkeys. The claim is that we share common ancestors.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 2:34 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:They don’t just “get” confused. The distinction is deliberately blurred by people like Meyer because causing that confusion is profitable.
People get abiogenesis and evolution confused and comingled.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 2:39 pm to Mung
quote:Not going to get into the weeds on this because that's a scientifically ancient phrase that isn’t taken literally anymore. Embryonic development doesn’t replay evolutionary history step-by-step. The point is that development reflects inherited constraints and conserved structures, but I do appreciate the reference.
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
This post was edited on 1/1/26 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 1/1/26 at 2:46 pm to NorCali
quote:Saying evolution can’t be studied without abiogenesis is like saying a mechanic can’t understand how an engine works unless he knows how the car was manufactured from raw ore.
Ok, where does it all begin then? If no beginning nothing can evolve.
So theory of evolution just starts at some convenient point post-existence of nucleated cells without having to worry about where they “evolved” from.
What an utter Non sequitor
The engine either runs by mechanical rules or it doesn’t. Its origin story is a separate question.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 3:05 pm to TheRealTigerHorn
quote:
I'm late to the party, but DownshiftAndFloorIt gets it. I have personally been a part of pushing the bleeding edge of science beyond what was previously believed to have been "known". Science has NEVER been advanced by blind acceptance of the status quo.
I will say this - I have used genetic algorithms extensively in computational optimization problems. They are still used today to train and develop AIs. They work by simulating survival of the fittest with absolute ruthlessness, with random mutations thrown in to explore boundaries with the hopes of creating a "fortunate monster". All I can say from that experience is that I have always felt that the timeline for the THEORY of Evolution was not possible. Too many iterations, too many failures, couldn't work even on a planetary scale.
Challenging science doesn’t mean dismissing a model because it feels unintuitive. It means proposing a better one that explains the same evidence with fewer assumptions. Simply saying “the timeline feels wrong” isn’t a scientific objection.
Your genetic algorithm analogy actually undercuts your point. Those systems work precisely because small random changes combined with selection can explore huge solution spaces without foresight. They don’t fail because there are “too many iterations”; they fail when the rules are poorly defined or when selection pressure is weak or misapplied.
Nature doesn’t have those limitations. It operates in parallel, over vast spans of time, with constant selection acting on countless organisms simultaneously. Comparing that to a bounded optimization routine running on human hardware is a false equivalence.
Skepticism is healthy. But skepticism without an alternative mechanism or a competing explanatory model is just disbelief.
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