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re: Do You Believe In Demons?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:48 am to beejon
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:48 am to beejon
quote:
the uncaused first cause
this is getting into ideas of time and space that we have yet to understand or grasp
I'm not going to say "obviously this is some type of supernatural being" just because we as human do not understand something at this moment
1
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:49 am to The First Cut
I didn't say only one can exist. There just might be a god or some kind of creator, but I sure as hell don't think Christianity got it right.
I think he meant it in the sense of everything we can't explain, religious people say "see, you can't explain that with science so there must be a god." This is becoming less and less.
I think he meant it in the sense of everything we can't explain, religious people say "see, you can't explain that with science so there must be a god." This is becoming less and less.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:49 am to boom roasted
Got what right?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:49 am to The First Cut
quote:
God and science.
because eventually, like when you go back to beejon's "uncaused first cause" idea, it is one or the other
it just is
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am to Salmon
quote:
this is getting into ideas of time and space that we have yet to understand or grasp
I'm not going to say "obviously this is some type of supernatural being" just because we as human do not understand something at this moment
It's not possible though for there not to be a first cause 'something' .
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am to The First Cut
quote:Creation. Where we come from. Where we go after death. Etc.
Got what right?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am to Salmon
There may be a few people that try to dispel science with the Bible but they are greatly outnumbered in Christian circles. I personally don't know any 6,000 year-old Earth people.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am to Salmon
quote:
because eventually, like when you go back to beejon's "uncaused first cause" idea, it is one or the other
it just is
It can't be "it just is". There must be a first cause.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:51 am to beejon
quote:
For example, something caused the universe. No matter if we know what caused it or not, there was still a cause. Was the 'something' which caused the universe first cause? If not, what caused the cause of the universe...and on an on until we meet, whatever it is, the uncaused first cause. Now, if you wish to dismiss the supernatural aspect of that, go ahead, but there is a first cause which cannot exist if we apply natural laws of today. Today, it exists and it's supernatural.
I get that this makes you feel better, but this is essentially just armchair cosmological philosophy. How do you know that existence isn't the default state of being and that there has never been "nothing?"
How do you know we aren't in just one of many universes that have been contracting and expanding repeatedly in localized clusters of "void?"
You don't. And it's effectively pointless to think you have figured it out with a chain of causation argument.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:52 am to beejon
quote:
It's not possible though for there not to be a first cause 'something' .
it might be
we simply don't know
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:52 am to boom roasted
quote:
Creation. Where we come from. Where we go after death. Etc.
So what do you believe?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:53 am to boom roasted
quote:
Neil deGrasse Tyson: "God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance, getting smaller and smaller as time goes on."
"....if that's how you want to approach the problem"
NDT was not ascribing this definition to God, he was using it as an example of the flaws behind the God of the gaps theory.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:55 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
I get that this makes you feel better, but this is essentially just armchair cosmological philosophy. How do you know that existence isn't the default state of being and that there has never been "nothing?"
How do you know we aren't in just one of many universes that have been contracting and expanding repeatedly in localized clusters of "void?"
You don't. And it's effectively pointless to think you have figured it out with a chain of causation argument.
If you have an example of an effect without a cause, it would be interesting to see it.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:55 am to beejon
quote:
It can't be "it just is". There must be a first cause.
It could be "it just is" just as easily as there needing to be a first cause. In fact "it just is" is a simpler conclusion and probably more reliable. But no one knows.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:56 am to The First Cut
Big bang. What caused the big bang? No idea. Over time, living beings were formed. How? No idea. Over time, animals (humans included) evolved. When we die, that's it. Darkness. Just like every other animal that has ever died on this planet. I don't think human beings are special in that we go to a special place after death while every single other living creature just dies and that's it.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 11:59 am
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:56 am to TK421
Anyone post a story yet? Yes I believe, not sure if it was a demon or just a ghost but my lil bros ex girlfriends family built a 400K house and moved out of it a lil over a year later bc of it being haunted. His gf literally moved into our house for the last 6-8 months they lived there.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:56 am to beejon
quote:
If you have an example of an effect without a cause, it would be interesting to see it.
Your first cause would need to be an effect without a cause.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:57 am to TK421
quote:I think I explained in a later post what he meant by that. Maybe not, though.
NDT was not ascribing this definition to God, he was using it as an example of the flaws behind the God of the gaps theory.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 11:59 am
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:58 am to beejon
quote:
If you have an example of an effect without a cause, it would be interesting to see it.
I agree. But let's not kid ourselves, your causative argument is nothing more than pure speculation. It's trying to apply everyday, salt of the earth logic to the biggest question in all of cosmology. You could understand how many would not be persuaded by that.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:59 am to boom roasted
quote:
I think I explained what he was trying to say later.
Eh, I'm not reading this whole thread. The quote appeared slightly out of context.
NDT, while an atheist, has usually appeared uninterested in the debate about the existence of God. He'll argue points where some religious people discount science, but overall his take seems reasonable.
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