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Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:40 pm to baldona
quote:
What are the cliff notes on this?
Capitan was god in the cockpit. His descisions couldn't be questioned and first officers never gave their input.
Now CRM, crew resource management, equally takes into account all pilot thoughts and opinions.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:45 pm to RedFoxx
quote:
Garuda Indonesia is a perfectly fine/safe airline.
Maybe today it is, but there was a time when Garuda was the one making headlines for all the wrong reasons.
Flight 865 - 1996
DC-10-30 aborted takeoff, 3 killed
Flight 152 - 1997
A300 crashed on approach, 234 killed
Flight 421 - 2002
737-300 ditched in river, 1 killed
Flight 200 - 2007
737-400 overran runway, 24 killed
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:51 pm to RedFoxx
quote:
Do you? Because you said to trust what you feel. If you go by what you think you're feeling you're going to make serious mistakes.
And it's pitot tube not pilot tube.
Ha my bad on the Pitot tube.
Those were simply examples of trusting what you feel. I was saying that there are multiple sources outside of just one or two instruments to understand what the plane is doing.
I completely understand flying off the instruments, but it does seem like when there is a pilot error crash they also seem to routinely trust one or two instruments too much and not the other gauges or warning signals
quote:
Now did they have enough time or altitude to troubleshoot or did they also lose and engine?
From what I can tell it was in the air for 11 minutes? So it looks like they had a good 8-9 minutes to gain elevation which should have put them well above 5700 ft right? So they must have been having problems fairly early on?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 12:57 pm to baldona
Gladwell proposes it has to do with the absolute respect that Asians have for hierarchy and authority. A copilot is not only not likely to correct the pilot, he’s not likely to directly question his decisions or attention to detail. So sometimes a crisis that could have been easily averted occurs.
Supposedly most of these airlines have addressed this specific cultural difference in training.
Supposedly most of these airlines have addressed this specific cultural difference in training.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:05 pm to Lsupimp
Makes sense. I believe I saw these pilots had 5,000 and 6,000 hours. Was one way to address that by putting pilots with more equal time and experience together? Instead of having someone with 15,000 and 2,000 hours regularly together?
Do pilots get to ever choose their copilot at all? I’d assume the scheduling process may vary between companies.
Do pilots get to ever choose their copilot at all? I’d assume the scheduling process may vary between companies.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:13 pm to baldona
quote:
Do pilots get to ever choose their copilot at all? I’d assume the scheduling process may vary between companies.
Yes and no. If your seniority will allow you to bid either with or against someone, then you can generally have a little “say” in who you fly with. Each airline is different. Some, captains bid first and then FO’s, vice versa at others. Some use PBS, which makes bidding with A certain qualification pilot easier but not who you fly with.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:22 pm to RedFoxx
quote:
Do you? Because you said to trust what you feel. If you go by what you think you're feeling you're going to make serious mistakes.
In my early days of flying I flew into some clouds it was total white out, in the couple of seconds it took my brain to process that there is no visibility better get on the instruments, the plane was already in a steep descending turn, it still felt like level flight to me.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:30 pm to just1dawg
quote:
Maybe today it is, but there was a time when Garuda was the one making headlines for all the wrong reasons.
Good thing I can only fly Garuda in this current time continuum.
With that logic you go back and say the same for Korean air and other carriers.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:33 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
fricking nerd
i know you are, but what am i?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:33 pm to Michael T. Tiger
The theory behind commercial air travel, especially overseas, is to basically get the plane off the ground and engage the autopilot, sit there and allow the FMS to fly the plane to 500Ft agl, disengage and land.
shite happens when there's a fly in the ointment, and basic airmanship skills are required, and are fundamentally lacking. This aircraft had a FMS write up on its final segment the night before. The airline reported the faults rectified, but failed to pull the aircraft for a maintenance check flight.
Any...Any, Indonesian airline, from Garuda to Lion Air should be avoided like the plague.
shite happens when there's a fly in the ointment, and basic airmanship skills are required, and are fundamentally lacking. This aircraft had a FMS write up on its final segment the night before. The airline reported the faults rectified, but failed to pull the aircraft for a maintenance check flight.
Any...Any, Indonesian airline, from Garuda to Lion Air should be avoided like the plague.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:36 pm to OchoDedos
Do you know what the logged discrepancy was?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:45 pm to Traveler
quote:
Do you know what the logged discrepancy was?
"Airspeed unreliable and alt disagree shown after take off. STS was also running to the wrong direction, suspected because of speed difference. Identified that CAPT instrument was unreliable and handover control to FO. Continue NNC of Airspeed Unreliable and ALT disagree. Decide to continue flying to CGK at FL280, landed safely rwy 25L"
that's straight off the log
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:46 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
douche canoe
speaking of humanity. using a feminine hygiene product as an insult to a male is VERY sexist. if you'd like to make humanity better, maybe start with yourself and which words you use to convey insult.
you'd never call me a toilet paper canoe as an insult now would you...but a douche canoe...why because women's struggles are the basis for what your brain immediately goes to when you want to insult another person? this sort of misogynistic hate speech is exactly what is wrong with you and your so-called humanity.
you, my friend, ARE the epitome of a toilet paper canoe!!!!!
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:51 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
"Airspeed unreliable and alt disagree shown after take off. STS was also running to the wrong direction, suspected because of speed difference. Identified that CAPT instrument was unreliable and handover control to FO. Continue NNC of Airspeed Unreliable and ALT disagree. Decide to continue flying to CGK at FL280, landed safely rwy 25L"
that's straight off the log
I'm not putting fault on anyone just trying to educate myself, but are things like this not conveyed to the next pilot the following morning?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 1:52 pm to OchoDedos
Ok, Thanks Ocho.
Just saw it on pprune. Are you following the thread over there?
Just saw it on pprune. Are you following the thread over there?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 2:23 pm to Traveler
quote:
Just saw it on pprune. Are you following the thread over there?
I wasnt at first...I lurk on pprune for comic relief...Brits and Aussies invented aviation, you know how it is.
A colleague emailed the write-up, I thought how in the hell did you get this? Then it hit me...pprune
The part that really got my attention was the...
" Continue NNC of Airspeed Unreliable and ALT disagree. Decide to continue flying to CGK at FL280, landed safely rwy 25L "
I'm thinking holy shite.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 2:33 pm to OchoDedos
Yeah, those guys can really get wound up at times. I think of it as the TD Rant of aviation. 
You have to shift through the trolls and crap to find the real information. Wasn't always like that.
You have to shift through the trolls and crap to find the real information. Wasn't always like that.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 3:35 pm to Traveler
quote:This is one of those times when I truly appreciate TD’s format
pprune
Posted on 10/29/18 at 3:36 pm to Traveler
Link to pprune thread you’re following? It seems like there are multiple threads on the site about this crash. Is there a main thread?
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