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Started By
Message
re: Mass shooting reported in Texas; multiple deaths reported
Posted on 11/6/17 at 9:50 am to SlapahoeTribe
Posted on 11/6/17 at 9:50 am to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
That’s really not the point though.
It’s an argument I wish people would stop making. Not because I agree/disagree with the statement, but because it shifts the debate away from the original intent of the 2A. And believe me, the original intent argument isn’t one anti-gun people want to be having - the original intent was to have the people protected from their government. To do so the people have to be as well armed (or at least have the capability to be as well armed) as their government.
The founding father had just fought a bloody war against a tyrannical government - their own government nonetheless. They knew that in order to prevent that from occurring again they would need to assure the new government couldn’t use undue force against its people. But, that same new government would need to be able to defend itself against other governments. So how did they reconcile this? They decided to equally arm the government and the people.
This is supposed to be a system of checks and balances not unlike those of Congress-President-Supreme Court. The government should always “fear” the actions of its people: should a government abuse its power, the power it derives from the people, then the people should be able to defy with equal force. This could be an invasion by the government or simply an unjust intrusion onto personal property. (I’m not advocating that we take up arms every time congress does something we don’t like, but the threat should be there. Congress should weigh every decision it makes against the will of the people - and an equal armed people are much better represented than a populous of unarmed sheep.)
Furthermore, because the government is supposed to be limited in its role, the people are in turn supposed to be empowered to carry out personal defense of their persons and their property. The founders never intended the government to be the “nanny” of our lives; we aren’t supposed to run to government for every little problem that arrises. This works on all levels including a community’s choice to self-authoritate.
Lastly, because of the wording and the very nature of the 2A, it shouldn’t matter if a weapon is “useful,” or “necessary,” or any other qualifier you wish to attach. It is simply whether or not I wish to own it. If I “want” to own a gun that can fire x rounds per minute, or looks like a gun from a movie, or just because it looks like fun, then I should be allowed to because it isn’t prohibited by the Constitution and I haven’t had my rights to own such removed by due process. Someone else’s “dislike” of my property is not justification for inhibiting my rights.
The citizens being equally armed ship sailed at least a century ago. Unless you think private citizens should have tanks, fighter jets, nuclear weapons etc. The original intent of 2A is nothing but a fantasy today.
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 9:53 am
3
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:14 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
The original intent of 2A is nothing but a fantasy today.
“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”
– Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6, 1938
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 10:17 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:27 am to Rebel
quote:
do you actually register as republican or democrat in Louisiana? I don't remember doing so. But that was a long time ago.
in Tennessee you don't register as either. you just point to a red or blue circle at the register table.
If I recall, I remember going register to vote and being asked what party I would like to register as.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:28 am to OweO
quote:
If I recall, I remember going register to vote and being asked what party I would like to register as.
it's been a long time but iirc, when I turned voting age, unless you registered as a dem in LA, you couldn't vote in primary elections
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 10:33 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:30 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
The citizens being equally armed ship sailed at least a century ago. Unless you think private citizens should have tanks, fighter jets, nuclear weapons etc. The original intent of 2A is nothing but a fantasy today.
So what? Should we just toss the 2A out?
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:31 am to Ed Osteen
Tell me this what type of gun was used in Sandy Hook 28 dead, Orlando 50 dead, San Bernadino 14 killed, Las Vegas 58 killed, San Antonio 28 killed? It's no longer an if the next event will happen, it is now when and how many will be killed. Why do you think these certain guns were chosen? As these weapons are now cheap, readily available, and very easy to get and use. Would there ever be a certain amount of innocent people that will have to be murdered in specific time span to think well maybe having a AR-15 in the hands of everyone that wants one might not be the best thing for society. Are there ways to improve background checks, why aren't background checks used in sales amount private parties, why were bump stocks being made and sold. These are just common sense questions not virtue signaling.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:34 am to martiallaw
Is there any solid Intel out yet?
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:37 am to upgrayedd
Press conference says he was shot by the neighbor of the church. Neighbor used ...an AR-15. Creep called his father while being chased and said he had been shot and was not going to make it. He shot himself in the vehicle.
age range inside church...18 months to 77 yrs.
age range inside church...18 months to 77 yrs.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:40 am to upgrayedd
Motive is still just speculation but looking into the guys background one can make a pretty good educated guess. Not known if he is affiliated with any sort of group.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:40 am to LCA131
Thanks
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:44 am to BOSCEAUX
quote:Which is what? Sorry I haven't kept up with this.
Motive is still just speculation but looking into the guys background one can make a pretty good educated guess.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:49 am to The Mick
He was a dipshit loser that got a BCD from the air force for beating his wife and kids. He was a very vocal atheist that had a hard on for Christianity. His new wife is reported to have been a teacher at the church. In short he was a wing nut loser that didn’t like church folks.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:58 am to The Mick
Families were briefed last night about the motive but I wanted authorities to release it before posting, it was domestic in nature. The ex in-laws were members of the church and the shooter had made threats to the ex mother in-law in the past. The ex inlaws were not in the church yesterday but the mother of the ex mother in law was and she was killed, they believe he was going around to the victims inside the church to find his ex laws that weren't there. My wife and her family knows the ex mother in law.
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 11:01 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:03 am to BOSCEAUX
Already have "friends" on Facebook saying how he shouldn't have been able to buy the gun because of assault on his wife and animal cruelty.
No, he couldn't buy a gun because he was DD'd from the military.
"Oh, didn't know that. A simple background check could have caught that."
He lied on the background check.
Some frickin people, man.
No, he couldn't buy a gun because he was DD'd from the military.
"Oh, didn't know that. A simple background check could have caught that."
He lied on the background check.
Some frickin people, man.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:05 am to TxWadingFool
quote:
Gets worse, he actually lost 4 of his kids plus the unborn child, his wife, and his parents, the oldest and youngest were with the aunt.
I would just kill myself at that point and I'm not joking. No human can handle that type of loss.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:05 am to Cowboyfan89
quote:
shakes head, you don't have to go to a retailer to buy a gun
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:08 am to GetCocky11
Not even 24 hours since 26, including an 18 month old, mauled down in church and this thread already unstickied smh
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 11:24 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:11 am to 777Tiger
quote:
you don't have to go to a retailer to buy a gun
And there is no law in the world that can prevent a private individual from selling a gun to another private individual. Even if they make it private gun sells illegal, how would you enforce that?
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:20 am to Cowboyfan89
I have no issue with guns...If I had more money, I would own more.
But you have to admit something is wrong with the system if he can just lie and tick "No" in a checkbox and be on his merry way with his gun.
But you have to admit something is wrong with the system if he can just lie and tick "No" in a checkbox and be on his merry way with his gun.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:25 am to ISEN_AG
Oh, no doubt. And I don't know what that problem is, but it needs to be fixed.
I'd like to know how he beat it. Checking a box doesn't do it alone, that's why they make the call. Anyone that thinks that alone allows you to walk out of a store has never been through a background check. I've only done it once when buying a shotgun, but I had to wait for them to call and make sure I had no record.
But I read that he used a Colorado address. Maybe that had something to do with how he beat the system. I'm really not that familiar with what information they use and how it's in the system. I could have sworn the address you give had to match what is on your Driver's License though. At least, that's what I was told when I bought my shotgun.
I'd like to know how he beat it. Checking a box doesn't do it alone, that's why they make the call. Anyone that thinks that alone allows you to walk out of a store has never been through a background check. I've only done it once when buying a shotgun, but I had to wait for them to call and make sure I had no record.
But I read that he used a Colorado address. Maybe that had something to do with how he beat the system. I'm really not that familiar with what information they use and how it's in the system. I could have sworn the address you give had to match what is on your Driver's License though. At least, that's what I was told when I bought my shotgun.
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