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re: Official Thread: Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:28 am to Pax Regis
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:28 am to Pax Regis
quote:
For terrorism to be effective, i.e., instill terror, someone has to take credit for the act and establish themselves as the source of the terror. This is not happening.
They haven't used it as a weapon yet, if indeed it is terrorism.
0
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:30 am to Pax Regis
and if that were the case, you'd probably still have some form of radio contact and/or a signal from one of the various systems on the plane
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:31 am to Shankopotomus
Here is the debris field that was spotted March 10th (this afternoon over there).
This looks like by far the best lead they have. Hopefully they discover something here, so these people can have closure and they can begin to investigate.
This looks like by far the best lead they have. Hopefully they discover something here, so these people can have closure and they can begin to investigate.
This post was edited on 3/10/14 at 10:36 am
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:32 am to Napoleon
I think that the near complete control of modern passenger jets by computers is contributing to this. Pilots don't know how to react in a crisis when the computers aren't in control or are providing incorrect data.
Like with Air France, the pilots were confused when they were getting stall warnings in the nose down position but were not getting stall warnings in the nose up position. So they kept holding the nose up all the way to a massive belly flop in the Atlantic. Problem was they were still stalled but the computers would not create a stall warning with their angle of attack so high. The computers assumed that no input was valid with that angle of attack so cut off the warning.
But when the pilot did the right thing and pushed the nose down to generate airspeed the warning came back on causing much confusion and death.
Like with Air France, the pilots were confused when they were getting stall warnings in the nose down position but were not getting stall warnings in the nose up position. So they kept holding the nose up all the way to a massive belly flop in the Atlantic. Problem was they were still stalled but the computers would not create a stall warning with their angle of attack so high. The computers assumed that no input was valid with that angle of attack so cut off the warning.
But when the pilot did the right thing and pushed the nose down to generate airspeed the warning came back on causing much confusion and death.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:34 am to Pax Regis
That new debris field is a long way from their last contact. Seems unlikely to be them unless they lost all comm systems.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:34 am to Chicken
quote:
Why would an Iranian want to blow up a plane full of Chinese people?
The Iranian government doesn't have a problem with China, but Iran is THE hotbed for all sorts of Islamic extremists and terrorists. China DOES have a Muslim terrorist problem. It's a stretch, but these guys could be sympathists with the Chinese Muslims.
I think the more likely explanation is that these were anti-Western Muslims run by a cell based in Iran who used this flight as a target of opportunity to test their methods. That's not a crazy theory, that's just what the 9/11 planners did in the run-up to their final big attack.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:34 am to Pax Regis
If a terrorist act happens and theres no one around to see it, did it really happen?
- Confucius
- Confucius
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:35 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
that's just what the 9/11 planners did in the run-up to their final big attack.
How did they test their final attack? I don't remember this.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:47 am to Pax Regis
quote:
How did they test their final attack? I don't remember this.
The whole Bojinka plot in general, but more specifically, Philippine Airlines Flight 434.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:51 am to Napoleon
I just read the play by play of the 2009 France flight. Jesus Christ.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:52 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
I think the more likely explanation is that these were anti-Western Muslims run by a cell based in Iran who used this flight as a target of opportunity to test their methods. That's not a crazy theory, that's just what the 9/11 planners did in the run-up to their final big attack.
Huh? That makes zero sense. Why would a terrorist group carry out a plan through final execution on a target they give two shits about? All that does is reveal their plan/strategy and would keep them from being able to use the plan against their actual target.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:53 am to Mr. Allman
quote:
Elaborate please
Do you remember the Islamist terrorist plot to bring down 11 trans-Pacific flights in the mid 90's? They first tested a bomb on a Philippine Airlines 747. The bomb exploded killing one passenger but the pilots were successful in controlling the aircraft and landing it safely in Japan. The masterminds, Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Muhammed, did not claim responsibility because it was a test run for a much larger terrorist attack. This was the begining of what eventually evolved into the 9-11-01 attack.
the Bojinka plot
LINK
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:54 am to Cooter Davenport
Got it.
This post was edited on 3/10/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 3/10/14 at 10:59 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
Huh? That makes zero sense. Why would a terrorist group carry out a plan through final execution on a target they give two shits about? All that does is reveal their plan/strategy and would keep them from being able to use the plan against their actual target.
It makes perfect sense if your end-game is a much bigger attack but you want to test your methods first. It doesn't necessarily reveal the strategy if you never claim it as a terrorist attack and if you do it to a flight without any terrorism significance, like KSM did with the Philippine Air attack prior to 9/11. That test attack's failure lead KSM to change his strategy for 9/11, which was successful, so it was definitely useful in the long run.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:12 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
It makes perfect sense if your end-game is a much bigger attack but you want to test your methods first. It doesn't necessarily reveal the strategy if you never claim it as a terrorist attack and if you do it to a flight without any terrorism significance, like KSM did with the Philippine Air attack prior to 9/11. That test attack's failure lead KSM to change his strategy for 9/11, which was successful, so it was definitely useful in the long run.
I "get it," however, I could/would argue that they would have had to change the plan regardless of the outcome of 434 if the people in charge of airline security took any measures whatsoever to remedy the breach.
In that case, the bomb only killed one person and the plane was able to land, so they moved away from that plan to suicide planes. But even if the bomb successfully brought down the airliner that time, you'd think the strategy would have to be extensively reworked for the next attempt.
Either way you're going to have to change a lot of things it seems. They would have been better off never detonating their device and taking it with them or having someone on the next flight to take it off so no one was ever aware it was there.
This post was edited on 3/10/14 at 11:13 am
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:12 am to IT_Dawg
that's the first I have seen of that one
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:13 am to Pax Regis
quote:
Like with Air France, the pilots were confused when they were getting stall warnings in the nose down position but were not getting stall warnings in the nose up position. So they kept holding the nose up all the way to a massive belly flop in the Atlantic. Problem was they were still stalled but the computers would not create a stall warning with their angle of attack so high. The computers assumed that no input was valid with that angle of attack so cut off the warning.
listen to the video, you can hear the stall warning 75 times but the crew never mention it. They belived it could not fly out of it's limits. But with the pitot iced up they had no airspedd indication.
The dummy right seat pilot kept his stick back the entire time and since the plane is fly by wire and has no haptic feedback the other pilot couldn't tell.
In manual control, I pull my yoke back and yours goes back as well.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:22 am to Napoleon
Yea I don't think most people get how bad of a pilot eff up that flight really was. It was like driving toward a cliff for six miles and flooring the gas pedal the whole way instead of hitting the brake.
This post was edited on 3/10/14 at 11:25 am
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:32 am to Topwater Trout
quote:Is your pinhead traced by radar, does it have communication with someone, does it have a transponder or emergency ping transmitter? If so, I would expect to be able to find it within 3 days.
fill up your tub and put something the size of a pinhead in it...make some waves and tell me how easy it is to find the pin head sized object.
Posted on 3/10/14 at 11:37 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Even so...they should have found something by now. This wasn't the first plane to ever break up at 35,000 feet.
It was five days before they found the first piece of debris from the Air France crash, and because of the planes data transmission they had a rough position to start with. Given the speed of the Malaysia plane, the time since last contact, not knowing if they changed course etc. the possible search area could be literally 500,000 square miles.
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