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re: Will the millennials be a lost generation?
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:33 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:33 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
But there's a big difference. Someone just getting started in a skilled trade like a plumber or welder are working towards advancing in their trade. A waiter or barista are just treading water.
But in order to get to the point where the tradesman is "making the same" they have to give up that "treading water" position. That means, they are below water for at least 18 months while trying to get to a job that pays the same as that "treading water" job, which will be enough to stop the sinking, but not enough to get their head back above water. Unless they are getting serious help from family, they probably won't be able to afford being under water and just trading water long enough to get to the point where it does pay off before being homeless.
1
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:48 pm to brodeo
I've been there. When I came off active duty in the early 90's and got $5.50 an hour job I lived in a rented trailer and barely had money to keep the lights and water on and gas in my motorcycle. Dinner on many nights consisted of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with tap water to drink. If I was lucky and got some overtime, I might be able to splurge and buy a 12 pack of beer and some hotdogs to throw on the grill come the weekend. Those were the years of just scraping by. But they paid off and now I'm what you'd consider upper middle class.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:54 pm to Darth_Vader
If you don't mind me asking, what was your "break" that got you out of that $5.50/hr (equivalent of $9.16/hr in today's dollars) job?
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:00 pm to musick
quote:
I think it's harder to pin down a timeline now than it used to be, but her and I are worlds apart. Yet according to most definitions we are both millennials. I think there has to be a stop gap and it should be around 1990 rather than 1980.
I see some that have 80-00 which is just insane.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:05 pm to brodeo
quote:
If you don't mind me asking, what was your "break" that got you out of that $5.50/hr (equivalent of $9.16/hr in today's dollars) job?
Promotions. The secret was I did my job well and showed that I was a motivated self starter wanting to do my best at whatever I was doing and advance in the company. And here I am over 20 years later at the same company. And according to the calculator here on my desk, I'm now making seven times annually what I made then with bonuses on top of that. It was not quick, it was not easy. But it can be done.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:12 pm to Darth_Vader
the point of college is (or was) to skip that bullshite, but that's not how it's going to be for everyone.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:18 pm to Darth_Vader
congratulations to you for your fortitude. You are very fortunate. Most of the kinds of jobs that millennials have access to rarely promote them much beyond minimum wage no matter how long or hard they work. Many people in the corporate world can vouch that current HR culture rarely promotes people to management from within anymore. Most people have to jump ship to move up or else be stuck in the same position forever. That which was once valued (company loyalty) is now perceived as a lack of drive and ambition. Rather than using people who are great at their jobs by having them train people to replace them before promoting them, they have pretty much done away with training all together, expecting applicants to come out of school or their last position will all of the knowledge to excel at the position immediately. Because that experienced, hard worker never gets to train any underlings, he becomes too valuable at that position to be promote-able. He literally has to quit working for his company or be at a dead-end in his career. It's maddening. HR is a plague upon this nation.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:19 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
the point of college is (or was) to skip that bullshite, but that's not how it's going to be for everyone.
And that's the biggest lie sold to this generation. Y'all have been sold a bill of goods that if you just get a degree you're all going to have cushy six figure a year jobs at a desk pushing buttons on a computer in a nice, air conditioned office.
The other disservice to this generation is that y'all have been taught that working with your hands, even at a skilled trade, is "trashy" and beneath you. When I was a kid I was taught that any man who gets up every morning and earns an honest living is worthy of respect. Now people who are "blue collar" are looked down at as though they were serfs or something by many, but not all, in your generation.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:23 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
And that's the biggest lie sold to this generation. Y'all have been sold a bill of goods that if you just get a degree you're all going to have cushy six figure a year jobs at a desk pushing buttons on a computer in a nice, air conditioned office.
This I agree with. I had to misfortune to begin college in 2007, 1 year before the crash. All through high school, we were told this.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:25 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The other disservice to this generation is that y'all have been taught that working with your hands, even at a skilled trade, is "trashy" and beneath you. When I was a kid I was taught that any man who gets up every morning and earns an honest living is worthy of respect. Now people who are "blue collar" are looked down at as though they were serfs or something by many, but not all, in your generation.
Very true. You can blame high school guidance counselors for this. My industry has tried extensive outreach to high schools before to try and educate kids on the opportunities in construction, transportation, and manufacturing, but the guidance counselors thump their noses up at us and never even let us into the schools to do give a pitch, let alone distribute recruitment material.
When I was in school, I had no idea what a plumber made. I had no clue as to how someone became a plant operator, home builder, underwater welder, ect. If I had known about careers in trades in high school, I (as well as many others in my class) may never have gone to college and wasted all of that money and time. I can count on 1 hand all of the successful college grads from my graduating class that aren't school teachers now, and I'm one of them. I'd need all of my hands and toes to count the successful blue collar baws. They're kicking our educated asses in terms of net worth.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:28 pm to Darth_Vader
You speak in absolutes far too much to have a legitimate discussion. As a recent college graduate, I know a grand total of zero people who expected to step into a management role or were upset at not making over $100k the day after graduating from college.
There's a happy medium which you seem unwilling to acknowledge. College isn't the only way to have a prosperous career financially, but it absolutely should open doors for jobs and higher earnings for the majority that earn practical degrees.
There's a happy medium which you seem unwilling to acknowledge. College isn't the only way to have a prosperous career financially, but it absolutely should open doors for jobs and higher earnings for the majority that earn practical degrees.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:32 pm to Louie T
quote:
College isn't the only way to have a prosperous career financially, but it absolutely should open doors for jobs and higher earnings for the majority that earn practical degrees.
One problem with that. You all go to college now; so the masters degree has become your generation's bachelor's. Sorry no one thought to make that clear.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:37 pm to Louie T
quote:
You speak in absolutes far too much to have a legitimate discussion. As a recent college graduate, I know a grand total of zero people who expected to step into a management role or were upset at not making over $100k the day after graduating from college.
1. You accuse me of speaking in absolutes and then proceed to speak in absolutes yourself.
quote:
There's a happy medium which you seem unwilling to acknowledge. College isn't the only way to have a prosperous career financially, but it absolutely should open doors for jobs and higher earnings for the majority that earn practical degrees.
Here's what I've said about the subject of going to college versus not going to college. Let's review...
quote:
The cold hard truth that many will have to accept is that 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars they spent getting a degree were in many cases wasted.
many=/=all, many =/=most
quote:
For some their degree with translate into a great career.
Guess you missed where I said this.
quote:
But for many others, it simply won't and those folks are going to have to swallow that bitter pill of reality and drive on.
Once again there's that "many" word that does not equal "all" or even "most".
quote:
Not everyone is going to be able to have a career wearing dress pants and button-down shirts in a office
This statement would logically lead a normal person to conclude that the person making the statement also meant that there would be others who did achieve this type of career. The "not everyone" phrase should be the indicator of this.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:44 pm to CadesCove
quote:
One problem with that. You all go to college now; so the masters degree has become your generation's bachelor's. Sorry no one thought to make that clear
Posted on 8/5/15 at 3:45 pm to Darth_Vader
My saying I don't know anyone upset about not making $100k at their first job isn't speaking in absolutes; it's a personal anecdote from someone who almost assuredly knows and has spoken to more recent college graduates than you. The segment of the populace expecting $100k for which it would be unreasonable is far too miniscule to even be worth arguing about.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:01 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Once again there's that "many" word that does not equal "all" or even "most".
i might be reaching but i am guessing that the majority of dealings with this age group are done via this website.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:12 pm to CadesCove
A JD is the new B.A. in many ways.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 4:22 pm to Ancient Astronaut
Probably unless they man up
Posted on 8/5/15 at 6:44 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The Greatest Generation faced coming of age during the Great Depression & WWII.
Boomers & Gen X's dealt with the oil embargo in the early 70's, and recessions in the 70's early 80's, and again in the early 90's. They also grew up with the possibility that the entire world could be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust on any given day within the next 40 minutes or so.
Point being, every generation faces shite that it had no part in creating. Life's not fair. Suck it up, Buttercup.
I'll give the Greatest Generation growing up in shite, but the Boomers and X, please. They just had an imaginary guy who didn't do shite go after them. 9/11 is probably the most traumatic moment in U.S. History, much more so than Pearl Harbor, since at least that was an American military base. I'd say only the American Civil War may beat it, but that's it.
quote:
You don't have to start out with a a "great" job. Nobody starts out with a "great" job". Just get "a" job and be happy you've got it. Pay your dues like the rest of us had to and the "great" job will come down the road.
Here's the thing though, in order to make your way past the censors these days, you've pretty much got to lie to get there. As I pointed out, my current job wanted me to have 5 fricking years in software sales, and I just lied to the computer that I met those qualifications. I was highly qualified for the job, but whenever you do entry level positions that make it impossible for anyone to actually enter it, it's bullshite.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 6:52 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
I see some that have 80-00 which is just insane.
So you don't think someone born literally at the turn of the millennium, is a millennial?
Millennials, the cohort of Americans born between 1980 and the mid-2000s
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