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re: inspired by the dog threads on the OT
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:23 pm to Mr. Hangover
Posted on 10/22/12 at 12:23 pm to Mr. Hangover
0
Posted on 10/22/12 at 1:31 pm to Teague
quote:The last documentary I watched said every single dog can be traced to wolves, and specifically, wolves in east Asia/China. I'd like to see/read about anything different from that.
There's a breed or two that are suspected to have their roots in foxes. Can't remember exactly which ones. Fenic foxes specifically.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 1:42 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
I'd like to see/read about anything different from that.
It's mentioned in the book I posted on the previous page. I don't know that there is any research that proves that it's true or untrue, but I've seen it mentioned before, including in that book.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:38 pm to Teague
There was a study done where wild foxes were trapped and domesticated through several generations. As they became progressively more domesticated each generation they began to change, and after a few generations the babies popping out looked nothing like the wild foxes they started with.
I was told the above and have never actually seen the study myself so it may or may not be bullshite.
I suspect that's what happened with dogs. Wolves being domesticated and through selective breeding and whatever the hell happened with those foxes giving us what we have today.
I was told the above and have never actually seen the study myself so it may or may not be bullshite.
I suspect that's what happened with dogs. Wolves being domesticated and through selective breeding and whatever the hell happened with those foxes giving us what we have today.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:45 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:45 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:It wasn't so much a study as a result. The breeders selected for tameness because the foxes were biting the shite out of them. What they did not realize was, by selecting for tameness, they were also selecting for traits they had no idea would appear. And yes, a similar thing probably happened with dogs.
There was a study done where wild foxes were trapped and domesticated through several generations. As they became progressively more domesticated each generation they began to change, and after a few generations the babies popping out looked nothing like the wild foxes they started with.
Then dogs got jobs. The Saluki was not so much selectively bred as it was just a fact of life that the good ones moved on to breed. The bad ones did not.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:47 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
It wasn't so much a study as a result.
Gotcha. I've never read into it.
quote:
it was just a fact of life that the good ones moved on to breed. The bad ones did not.
BACKYARD BREEDING
:omg:
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:51 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Yeah, I don't think the Bedouins did hip studies 
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:54 pm to AlxTgr
Pretty damn likely they didn't care a whole lot about that part.
I need to educate myself a little bit on that domestication transformation thing. I'm completely clueless about how it happens.
I need to educate myself a little bit on that domestication transformation thing. I'm completely clueless about how it happens.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:57 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I caught a fox once... let him go real quick.. he was not happy.. .would hate to catch a wolverine..
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:58 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Yeah, I don't think the Bedouins did hip studies
Which is why most breeds that were developed to perform a real physical task usually have very few health problems. That's before AKC breeders get a hold of them, of course. Greyhounds are actually a very healthy breed, for example.
This post was edited on 10/22/12 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:00 pm to Teague
quote:
before AKC breeders get a hold of them
It's amazing how much they've bastardized so many working breeds.
Take the old bloodhound for example. Through very selective inbreeding, they've successfully got the average life expectancy of an AKC bloodhound down to about 7 years with frickloads of health problems in between.
I have a CKC bloodhound and it looks sooooooooooooooooooooo much more like a redbone than the big droopy arse floppy worthless AKC bloodhounds.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:02 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:I don't think the experts know and never will. Most likely: some wolves started hanging close to get scraps. Some became somewhat tame. Over time, the tameness was amplified. Once part of the clan, favorable traits were selected for. Shapes, colors and sizes were probably accidental at first, then refined threw more natural selection than purposeful breeding.
I'm completely clueless about how it happens.
At least, that's what I've gotten from the Nature episodes on this.
Dogs That Changed The World
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:06 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
I don't think the experts know and never will.
Figures.
It's pretty amazing that dogs have been domesticated to the degree that they are today. We've completely converted a wild pack beast into something that lives to please humans.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:11 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:I find it amazing that "we" did it by manipulating the instincts that were already there.
We've completely converted a wild pack beast into something that lives to please humans.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:25 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
did it by manipulating the instincts that were already there.
Good point.
Never really put much thought into the domestication of dogs.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:30 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Watch those shows if you ever get a chance. It is believed we were able to stop breeds at points on this instinctual line:
1.Orient
2.Eye
3.Stalk
4.Chase
5.Grab
6.Bite-Kill
7.Bite-Dissect
Etc.
1.Orient
2.Eye
3.Stalk
4.Chase
5.Grab
6.Bite-Kill
7.Bite-Dissect
quote:
Herding dogs must eye and stalk, but never bite or kill.
Retrievers must grab the prey but should not dissect.
Etc.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:34 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Watch those shows if you ever get a chance.
Definitely will.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 5:50 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Herding dogs must eye and stalk, but never bite or kill.
True. I have a border collie. She herds just like wolf packs hunt. She just has the go for the kill out of her.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 7:50 pm to Nodust
Exactly. Pointers. Amazing what those do with no training at all. And more so-what they won't do that other dogs do.
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