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Started By
Message
re: proposed speck and redfish changes
Posted on 7/7/23 at 11:04 pm to maisweh
Posted on 7/7/23 at 11:04 pm to maisweh
quote:
And yall applaud this nonsense
Not me, I’ve written my representatives several times on this. I wish the CCA would become a lot more vocal on stopping this bullshite, that should be their singular mission right now. They haven’t come close to mounting an offensive like they did against the gill nets.
0
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:27 am to TJG210
quote:Link?
But the problem is that there is no science behind it
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:34 am to TJG210
quote:
But the problem is that there is no science behind it.
Where is the science saying the pogey boats are having an impact on the trout population?
What amount of “science” would convince people that restricting limits would have a positive impact on our fishing?
Im not talking about science supporting declining trout populations. I agree that the stuff the ldwf is putting forth seems relatively weak but common sense should tell us we don’t have the same fishery we did 30 years ago and that will will only get worse over the next 30 years.
The best trout scientist in the world think that restricting limits would have a positive impact on the trout number so that’s enough “science” for me to think something could be done.
Now, we could have a legitimate discussion on whether that should be done through government regs or not. I’m still not a fan of that but it’s pretty clear that less people bringing home fish would make for a better fishery.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:52 am to hall59tiger
quote:
What amount of “science” would convince people that restricting limits would have a positive impact on our fishing?
I dont think it's debatable that people catching/keeping fewer fish would mean more fish in the water.
What winds people up about this is the constant assault on recreational rod and reel fishermen while it's still possible to go buy blacked redfish in a restaurant whenever you want.
One clearly impacts the fishery more than the other, yet the big impact never gets seriously discussed. It's always war on the weekend warrior.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 7:58 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:those are mostly farm raised
buy blackened redfish whenever you want
Posted on 7/8/23 at 8:29 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
n while it's still possible to go buy blacked redfish in a restaurant whenever you want.
99.9% of restaurants are serving farm raised redfish.
I’m not saying that rec fishermen are having the biggest impact. I don’t think rec fish come remotely close to having the biggest impact.
I’m just saying there are only so many variables we have control over. The best we can hope for as far as landloss is just to maintain what we currently have (I think that’s very unlikely).
So the only levers we can pull are pogey boats and rec fishermen. That’s it.
Im not concerned with how fishing is this year or even 5 years from now. I want my grandkids to be able to experience the things i have in the marsh. My first memories and many of my best memories are of me fishing/hunting in the marsh. I’m also young enough (30) to have grown up hearing camp stories of old timers talking about the good ole days. I just really hope we aren’t currently living in the “good ole days” of the next 30 years.
This post was edited on 7/8/23 at 8:31 am
Posted on 7/8/23 at 8:57 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Link?
Link to any viable studies in the last 2 years
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:08 am to hall59tiger
quote:
Where is the science saying the pogey boats are having an impact on the trout population?
I guess it’s more anecdotal, but knowing that very few fisherman keep redfish over 27” I doubt very seriously an operation that’s continuously trawling the beaches isn’t doing more harm when it comes to dead bycatch.
quote:
What amount of “science” would convince people that restricting limits would have a positive impact on our fishing?
Well some that would at least illustrate there is a problem to start. In the case of trout, they haven’t done that.
quote:
common sense should tell us we don’t have the same fishery we did 30 years ago and that will will only get worse over the next 30 years
No shite, common sense will also tell you that we have far less coast line/marsh than we did back then, so the “fix” may not do a damn thing.
quote:
The best trout scientist in the world think that restricting limits would have a positive impact on the trout number so that’s enough “science” for me to think something could be done.
Is the “best trout scientist” from Louisiana? If not, his opinion likely doesn’t mean a hill of beans as the conditions here are dramatically different than in any other coastal state.
quote:
it’s pretty clear that less people bringing home fish would make for a better fishery.
It hasn’t been made clear in southwest louisiana
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:12 am to hall59tiger
quote:
So the only levers we can pull are pogey boats and rec fishermen. That’s it.
So let's pull the damn pogey boat lever.
We are the only state in the country that still allows this shite. Whether I keep 3 vs 5 19" redfish doesn't have shite to do with anything.
We have the damn easy button available to instantly make the biggest step possible in the right direction and nobody will touch it.
That's why this pisses people off.
quote:
99.9% of restaurants are serving farm raised redfish
Side note- today I learned this is a thing. I didn't think it was possible.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:21 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Side note- today I learned this is a thing. I didn't think it was possible.
I think most of these are in other states
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:37 am to TJG210
quote:there were some in La a few years back.
I think most of these are in other states
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:41 am to hall59tiger
99.9% of restaurants are serving farm raised redfish. La does not allow commercial harvest of redfish
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:47 am to TJG210
quote:
I guess it’s more anecdotal
Exactly what I was getting at. We can agree that both sides are bringing mostly anectdotal evidence to support their arguments. The only actual science we have, valid or not, is from ldwf.
quote:
No shite, common sense will also tell you that we have far less coast line/marsh than we did back then, so the “fix” may not do a damn thing.
Exactly. Some people believe it’s worth doing whatever we can to help. You could l definitely make an argument that it doesn’t matter what we do because all the marsh is gonna be gone in 50 years anyways. The pogey guys could make that same argument. All I’m trying to say is that it’s not some ridiculous thing to think catch and release would help.
quote:
Is the “best trout scientist” from Louisiana? If not, his opinion likely doesn’t mean a hill of beans as the conditions here are dramatically different than in any other coastal state.
To me, this argument is where people start to lose credibility. We have very credible scientist, with absolutely nothing to gain, from states on either side of of saying that catch and release is effective. Anyone saying it wouldn’t apply to LA need to check their biases. There are lots of objective arguments to be made on either side but we are getting into the idealistic realm when we flippantly dismiss every argument against our own “side”.
quote:
It hasn’t been made clear in southwest louisiana
Could be wrong here but I’m going to assume you are talking about big lake? Using big lake data to oppose recs is an extremely weak argument. It immediately clues me in to the elementary understanding of science the person purporting it must have. How do we know that big lake wouldn’t have zero trout at all without the recs? Maybe the recs stopped an absolute collapse of the fishery? We don’t have a control to say what the alternative would be. It’s just a very very weak argument to say catch and release didn’t work because big lake isn’t what it used to be. It’s also the same people using the big lake argument who say our fishery isn’t the same as Texas so we can’t use that research. Big lake is more similar to the bays in texas than it is to central/east LA. Can’t have your cake and eat it too with that one (not saying you are).
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:48 am to TJG210
quote:
I think most of these are in other states
Most are coming from farms in texas right off of matagorda bay.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:52 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
So let's pull the damn pogey boat lever.
I 100% agree and plan to use all the resources I have available to do so soon. I think the angling community in LA needs something to galvanize us together and this would be a great place to start.
I just don’t understand why we can’t pull all the levers. Just because one is taking longer than we all would like doesn’t mean we can get started on the other.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:57 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:what states allow commercial harvest of reds and how many lbs are caught.
What winds people up about this is the constant assault on recreational rod and reel fishermen while it's still possible to go buy blacked redfish in a restaurant whenever you want.
Many restaurants sub other fish for redfish in this - ie black drum
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:02 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
Many restaurants sub other fish for redfish in this - ie black drum
This is true. One of the most popular restaurants in New Orleans used to order “trout cut” sheepshead (pretty obvious what they were using it for). Another famous chef used to boil sheepshead in a cheesecloth bag to use in crab dishes. Not sure how much of that is going on right now but black drum and sheepshead were substituted for many seafood dishes back in the day.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:14 am to hall59tiger
quote:
I want my grandkids to be able to experience the things i have in the marsh
I'm 58 and i've been in coastal marshes a lot from one end of the state to the other since I was 7. Every time I go to a place I haven't been for a couple of years I am astonished at the habitat degradation that I can visually see - just imagine the degradation that is below the surface.
As for regulations not helping big lake - did the increase of oystering effect the speckled trout there?
since the gill net ban -many old gill netters became crabbers - has the increased crab harvest also had a long term effect on reds?
has the meteoric rise of surface drives and shallow drive boats traipsing daily and nightly through prime nursery ground marsh had an effect on the behavior of fish if not on the life cycle.
Look at pictures of ANY area except eastern plaquemines parish from 10-50 years ago the visual decline is unreal -If the habitat continues to decline so will the estuary and so will the fish and shellfish we seek.
Blaming bow fishermen is kind of absurd(and I am a fly fisherman) a fish doesn't car how it dies(ive been on 5 bowfishing trips and only saw ONE under sized red taken - the guide yelled no no NO but the client still shot.
Saying diversion projects don't work - the two biggies due to lawsuits are operating WAY WAY below capacity.
IF our habitat loss/degradation is not at least mitigated we will se a continual decline in our fisheries - no matter what the limits are. The redfish limits put in place in the 80s did help the fish - but 80s habitat is long gone.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:31 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
Saying diversion projects don't work - the two biggies due to lawsuits are operating WAY WAY below capacity.
Then wouldn’t it make sense to do something different this time? More dredging projects, etc? I know it’s more expensive, but surely we can put our heads together and come up with a solution.
Believe me, every time I go out I’m thoroughly upset by the things I see missing. Hell I was out in barataria bay a few yrs ago and couldn’t believe how bad it was. I remember land and camp at St. Mary’s point, as well as the islands at Manila village. I don’t even want to think what lake Laurier looks like now. I remember an island that used to hold tons of trout and reds that I’m sure is gone.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:40 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
I agree 100% when they attempt the make these changes CCA or someone should sue the department and the Zapata and ask for environment assessment of pogy boat industry.
CCA is the main one protecting the pogie boats because they are being paid off. CCA has one goal and one purpose, that is to create the most restrictive guidelines they can for recreational fishermen, while refusing to target the real issue of pogie boats and commercial fishing
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