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Message
re: Abortion from a Republican woman's perspective...
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:12 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:12 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
The kids should be punished for the sins of their parents, right?
No, idiot.
I'm for breaking the cycle so that fewer kids end up in that situation. You want to increase it so that there ends up being more of them.
Do you not understand that a very basic principle of economics is that whatever you subsidize, you will get more of? To the exact degree that you subsidize it?
I'm all about helping the children. No, the children shouldn't be punished for their parents at all.
Helping the children would be to stop subsidizing single motherhood so that fewer of them would be put in that situation to begin with, and if the children out there already weren't being cared for properly, take them away from the parent and put them someplace where they would get proper care. The parent is by definition someone who is incapable of caring for them properly on her own, and no, the children shouldn't be punished for that.
But something tells me it's not really about the children for you. It's about the women. It's ALWAYS about the women.
quote:
Isn’t that exactly what abortion is?
No. The problem with abortion—as I keep trying to explain to you—isn't that the parents were stupid and got pregnant. Abortion is a decision that is made AFTER someone gets pregnant. The choice about the pregnancy has already been made and that boat has already sailed.
So no. Abortion isn't about punishing the unborn for anybody's sins, it's about committing an additional sin to avoid responsibility. It's an avoidance of responsibility.
And again, no one is saying that the mother has to parent the child. We're not asking for that, nor is it probably in the child's best interest. We're just asking for the mother to not be able to kill the child until he or she can be placed with someone who is capable of caring for them.
You want government subsidies for THAT? Pre-natal care, delivery expenses, time off if the child goes up for adoption?
You want to fund government facilities to take care of more children who have been given up for adoption but not yet placed?
Sure. I'd sign that bill myself. Any day of the week ending in a "Y."
Those are actually initiatives that would "promote the general welfare" as it were. What you want to do would be to promote initiatives to continue undermining it.
You'd be a fool to subsidize more single mother families. And there's a pile of data up to your chin to prove it.
This post was edited on 9/2/24 at 9:23 pm
1
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:14 pm to MemphisGuy
In my pipe dream world, there would be more mentor services by community members, teachers, other families with stable homes. Have them over for meals, sponsor or include them in extracurricular activities including offering them rides and cheering them on when no one else is. And PUNISH neglectful parents! This is not talked about enough!
Long ago I worked at the Office of family Support. It was eye opening the way single parents lie and game the system. They got handouts indefinitely and refused to work. They would lie on forms and we would be tasked with proving it, and then it was always dropped. And usually “daddy” lived with them but they lied and it was a “ single mother” case.
I always wondered how much of that support actually went to the kids. I wish for more help for them directly.
On the other hand, I distinctly remember having to tell a 55 year old man with cancer and up to his eyes in medical bills that he didn’t qualify for temporary assistance. I went home and cried my eyes out because there was nothing I could do. I don’t know if things have changed since then but I sure hope so.
Long ago I worked at the Office of family Support. It was eye opening the way single parents lie and game the system. They got handouts indefinitely and refused to work. They would lie on forms and we would be tasked with proving it, and then it was always dropped. And usually “daddy” lived with them but they lied and it was a “ single mother” case.
I always wondered how much of that support actually went to the kids. I wish for more help for them directly.
On the other hand, I distinctly remember having to tell a 55 year old man with cancer and up to his eyes in medical bills that he didn’t qualify for temporary assistance. I went home and cried my eyes out because there was nothing I could do. I don’t know if things have changed since then but I sure hope so.
This post was edited on 9/2/24 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:16 pm to madamtiger
quote:replace cancer with stroke and I can assure you they have not
On the other hand, I distinctly remember having to tell a 55 year old man with cancer and up to his eyes in medical bills that he didn’t qualify for temporary assistance. I went home and cried my eyes out because there was nothing I could do. I don’t know if things have changed since then but I sure hope so.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:18 pm to OWLFAN86
Well that sickens me still.
And by the way, your story was compelling and I thank you for sharing.
And by the way, your story was compelling and I thank you for sharing.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:20 pm to madamtiger
quote:
I always wondered how much of that support actually went to the kids.
You probably didn't wonder very hard. It's probably not that hard to predict.
quote:
On the other hand, I distinctly remember having to tell a 55 year old man with cancer and up to his eyes in medical bills that he didn’t qualify for temporary assistance.
That's generally how these huge federal programs go. The people who really need it can't get it and the people who are experts at gaming the system get anything they apply for.
I've seen that happen many times with disability.
quote:
They would lie on forms and we would be tasked with proving it, and then it was always dropped.
And this is why. The government knows the system is being gamed and won't stop it.
None of that is why I oppose more subsidies for single parenthood, though.
The data on what that does to children is why I oppose that nonsense.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:21 pm to madamtiger
quote:well I guess you started it
And by the way, your story was compelling and I thank you for sharing.
so thank you for sharing
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:22 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
No, idiot.
Look, I’m extremely frustrated by your verbose posts that ignore whatever points I make and ramble on in tangents that are repetitive and, frankly, they’re inconsequential to the discussion.
Despite my frustration, I’m not calling you names. But I do get to hear ad nauseum how men are superior to women because men are so logical while women are emotional. But look at the gender of the people who are resorting to name calling in this thread.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:27 pm to wackatimesthree
You’re right… it was kinda rhetorical.
Working there changed a lot of my perspective and why I think we need to come down heavier on parental responsibility. I busted my arse and sacrificed to raise my kids. I was glad to do it. The no accountability makes me sick and I am NOT for abortion on demand but I sure believe in forced IUDs for deadbeats.
Working there changed a lot of my perspective and why I think we need to come down heavier on parental responsibility. I busted my arse and sacrificed to raise my kids. I was glad to do it. The no accountability makes me sick and I am NOT for abortion on demand but I sure believe in forced IUDs for deadbeats.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:28 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Look, I’m extremely frustrated by your verbose posts that ignore whatever points I make
Well, I'm frustrated by your lies. Like the one you just posted. I haven't ignored anything you've said. I've responded to everything...that's why the posts have to be "verbose."
If you don't like the name calling, o.k., I don't like the lying. Stop lying and I will stop the name calling.
quote:
But look at the gender of the people who are resorting to name calling in this thread.
The logical fallacy here is assuming that name calling and arguing from emotion are synonymous. They aren't.
I fully admit to matching your tone. That's a debate tactic. When you start lying, I disrespect you as you have disrespected me. To fail to do so would be to communicate to you that you can get away with it.
Let's all be honest about the fact that the name calling is a direct response to asking you to stop lying in the context of, "Either you are too stupid to understand that what you're saying is a lie, or you are too dishonest to address what I've actually said, which is it?"
You keep lying, the names will keep coming. Up to you.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:29 pm to madamtiger
quote:Mandatory Vasectomies for these deadbeat dads.
Working there changed a lot of my perspective and why I think we need to come down heavier on parental responsibility. I busted my arse and sacrificed to raise my kids. I was glad to do it. The no accountability makes me sick and I am NOT for abortion on demand but I sure believe in forced IUDs for deadbeats.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:30 pm to OWLFAN86
Well, it was definitely eye opening to how brutal people can be on message boards. But I appreciate seeing a different side to the rape angle. I come at it as mamma bear because of some things that have happened in our lives, but I’m sure glad you’re here and shared. God bless!
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:31 pm to madamtiger
quote:
The no accountability makes me sick and I am NOT for abortion on demand but I sure believe in forced IUDs for deadbeats.
I'm with you.
Step one is to stop subsidizing the behavior.
Step 2 is to subsidize better behavior, i.e., giving the child up for adoption.
Step 3 is a forced IUD after your second child that the government has to subsidize and adopt and pay for.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:31 pm to llfshoals
For it!
I’m gonna go into the work week feeling like starting this thread wasn’t completely useless. Lol
I’m gonna go into the work week feeling like starting this thread wasn’t completely useless. Lol
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:31 pm to madamtiger
quote:
Well, it was definitely eye opening to how brutal people can be on message boards.
This one is particularly thorny.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:34 pm to llfshoals
quote:
Mandatory Vasectomies for these deadbeat dads.
Maybe...the only hesitation I have with that is that it's a whole lot easier to take out an IUD than it is to reverse a vasectomy.
I would be in favor of reviews at certain intervals during which the person could petition the court for a reversal if they could show ability to be responsible going forward.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:35 pm to madamtiger
quote:I’ve had one, wasn’t bad at all. When my wife and I were done having children I went and got clipped.
For it! I’m gonna go into the work week feeling like starting this thread wasn’t completely useless. Lol
It’s also reversible.
Put them on an assembly line for the procedure and hand them 2 bags of frozen English peas after. Could solve probably 50% of the problem in a month.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:37 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:If they have 6 kids by 4 different women I don’t want them reversed.
Maybe...the only hesitation I have with that is that it's a whole lot easier to take out an IUD than it is to reverse a vasectomy.
But yes, court review would be needed.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:37 pm to wackatimesthree
Step one is correct.
Step two for me is seeing that the children don’t suffer. That’s why I said in my original post that what we are doing isn’t working! Ideas for going around these parents to give their kids a fighting chance.
The stories I could tell from school. You can’t imagine….
I want these kiddos to be productive members of society and help them
Step three is come down hard on those parents. It is infuriating what they get away with only to keep having more!
Step two for me is seeing that the children don’t suffer. That’s why I said in my original post that what we are doing isn’t working! Ideas for going around these parents to give their kids a fighting chance.
The stories I could tell from school. You can’t imagine….
I want these kiddos to be productive members of society and help them
Step three is come down hard on those parents. It is infuriating what they get away with only to keep having more!
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:39 pm to madamtiger
quote:Wife is a nurse, you just think you’ve seen bad
The stories I could tell from school. You can’t imagine….
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:40 pm to madamtiger
Giving my age away but already have and then my profession i've been involved in politics/ government For most of my professional life save the first 7 years being a DJ 
for 30 plus years full time
And forgive the run-on sentences i'm using voice to text because it's late and again i've had a stroke only one working hand and I'm eating chips
In my time I had several occasions to work with the Ag-extension agency which was a program run through Texas A and M University but was a federally subsidized program implemented at the state level and it was to address the issue of food deserts in historically underserved communities i'm sure you're aware of it as would anybody else that reads this post it's an issue that gets talked about
And it is a real issue some of the economically depressed neighborhoods do not have the grocery stores with the goods that nicer places have so in trying to address that problem there are programs allow me to share my experience with one particular program as in the changes that I saw it go through in about a decade's time and to get back to a thread on the OTA week ago part of this story involves before and after Katrina and the refugees
there was a program that went into neighborhoods and made healthy food available to them giving them vouchers actually bringing the groceries into the neighborhoods but they were asked to attend a class which promoted healthier eating gave them solutions to possibly not having refrigerators which I'd roll if you will but in some cases, they were so poor that the refrigeration system was not is up to par as it could be so there are a lot of issues that this program tried to address I saw over a period of 4 years maybe 5 at the most that in order to qualify for the program the recipients used to have to sit in and get instruction with a social worker sit through a 15 minute class show ID sign paperwork admitting that they were not getting the exact same benefits from another provider and over this four or five year. Liberals Democrat activists started to insist that these were unnecessary and cruel metrics to make these people go through so instead of actually asking for accountability for the program itself and the recipient the people running these programs actually ran it into the ground that it is no longer in existence because they eliminated every qualifier to receive the benefits every aspect of education for the families and just wanted it to be a giveaway that was get then ran by pseudo political organizations that became very top heavy with executives and administrators and personnel
My conclusion is if you think these programs and want to protect them start running them better
because we are out of money the programs do not work it's not providing the help that it is intended to the whole social welfare program is so top-heavy with administration program . they're overstaffed , DEI, human resources
An example right now LSU fans are pissed at the head coach just because they want the head coach replaced doesn't mean they the arent fans and do not care
the want these kids to win they just recognize that if it keeps going the direction
no one wins
for 30 plus years full time And forgive the run-on sentences i'm using voice to text because it's late and again i've had a stroke only one working hand and I'm eating chips
In my time I had several occasions to work with the Ag-extension agency which was a program run through Texas A and M University but was a federally subsidized program implemented at the state level and it was to address the issue of food deserts in historically underserved communities i'm sure you're aware of it as would anybody else that reads this post it's an issue that gets talked about
And it is a real issue some of the economically depressed neighborhoods do not have the grocery stores with the goods that nicer places have so in trying to address that problem there are programs allow me to share my experience with one particular program as in the changes that I saw it go through in about a decade's time and to get back to a thread on the OTA week ago part of this story involves before and after Katrina and the refugees
there was a program that went into neighborhoods and made healthy food available to them giving them vouchers actually bringing the groceries into the neighborhoods but they were asked to attend a class which promoted healthier eating gave them solutions to possibly not having refrigerators which I'd roll if you will but in some cases, they were so poor that the refrigeration system was not is up to par as it could be so there are a lot of issues that this program tried to address I saw over a period of 4 years maybe 5 at the most that in order to qualify for the program the recipients used to have to sit in and get instruction with a social worker sit through a 15 minute class show ID sign paperwork admitting that they were not getting the exact same benefits from another provider and over this four or five year. Liberals Democrat activists started to insist that these were unnecessary and cruel metrics to make these people go through so instead of actually asking for accountability for the program itself and the recipient the people running these programs actually ran it into the ground that it is no longer in existence because they eliminated every qualifier to receive the benefits every aspect of education for the families and just wanted it to be a giveaway that was get then ran by pseudo political organizations that became very top heavy with executives and administrators and personnel
My conclusion is if you think these programs and want to protect them start running them better
because we are out of money the programs do not work it's not providing the help that it is intended to the whole social welfare program is so top-heavy with administration program . they're overstaffed , DEI, human resources
An example right now LSU fans are pissed at the head coach just because they want the head coach replaced doesn't mean they the arent fans and do not care
the want these kids to win they just recognize that if it keeps going the direction
no one wins
This post was edited on 9/2/24 at 9:42 pm
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