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Started By
Message
re: All the talk on Roe V. Wade
Posted on 7/14/18 at 5:35 pm to beerJeep
Posted on 7/14/18 at 5:35 pm to beerJeep
quote:
People shouldn’t start threads and then abandon them.
Lol I added to that thread just for you. Once threads started getting high page counts I tend to look elsewhere unless there's a couple good posters adding to the discussion.
0
Posted on 7/14/18 at 5:37 pm to Random MsState Fan
quote:
Same for you. Mind your own business.
This makes no sense. Mind my own business by allowing bible thumpers to ban all abortions and subsequently throw equality out the window for women and minorities?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 5:39 pm to Ole Messcort
You are an advocate for more abortions.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 5:46 pm to Random MsState Fan
quote:
You are an advocate for more abortions.
Nope. I'd be just fine with all women deciding they'd like to not get an abortion just as long as they always get to make that decision. I'm not going to lie to you and say I'd be thrilled with 200 million extra babies being born next year though but I'm not actively pushing for everyone to get an abortion either. The mother tends to make the right choice.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 6:46 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Yeah, it has 23 pairs of chromosomes. So what? Does it have the “something” that separates “people” from other animals? Nope, not yet. It is not self-aware.
What is this "something" that differentiates humans from other "animals"? Is it inextricably linked to what you call "self-aware"?
How is it measured? What's the best test to determine a sufficient quotient of "self-awareness" to differentiate between human and animal?
Do you and I possess it?
Can we prove we have it? Can anyone prove they have the requisite amount of it? Did Hitler or Pol Pot have it. Did St. Paul? Can we prove we have it to a sufficient degree to keep someone from scalding us in a caustic solution and then dismembering us for tissue and organ sales or the trash bin?
Is one's awareness of the pain of such treatment a sufficient indicator that they've attained adequate "self-awareness" and have risen to a loftier status than other "animals"?
All of the sophistry and coffee house paradoxes in the world are not going to change the fact that abortion is the murder of a human child done, in most cases, for someone's convenience and the profit of the abortionist.
It's macabre, grotesque, and demonic. It's child sacrifice by assembly line. IMO,
Posted on 7/14/18 at 7:40 pm to Mr. Misanthrope
quote:
fact
Would that it were so simple.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:40 am to Joshjrn
quote:
As for the discussion of responsibility, that's where things get really interesting. We've rather arbitrarily decided that the unborn have, at best, a negative right to life. From birth through the age of 17, children have a positive right to life. From 18 onward, we return to a negative right to life. Except that in some states, we've established a return to a positive right to life as it pertains to children and their elderly parents.
It's all very messy and rather arbitrary, but that's where we are
I've given our conversation some more thought and I've come to the conclusion that I reject the idea that the "right to life" is exclusively positive or negative, especially for children, infants, and the unborn. Also for simplicity's sake, I'm going to refer to everything from a fertilized zygote up to teenage years as "children", as I believe my position is consistent for everything in that spectrum:
A new born has both a positive and negative right to life. The parents must make every reasonable effort to keep that child alive, and being negligent in this duty is cause to be charged with a crime, thus the child's right to life is positive specifically in regards to the child's legal guardians, i.e. I don't have any responsibility to feed your child, but you certainly do.
Also, the child has a negative right to life which extends to everyone, not just the legal guardians...if someone were to take willful action which directly resulted in the death of a child they are guilty of some form of homicide.
It is my position that these rights manifest immediately upon conception (fertilization). Obviously this means that I believe the mother should be legally obligated to take all necessary actions to keep herself in good health and not endanger the well being of her child, but I recognize that the burden of proof is always on the accuser and prosecuting every miscarriage is absurd. Therefore, there's a bit of "loophole" in my ideal legal framework re: abortion....the mother could ingest harmful chemicals or cease to eat until the child is terminated, and I don't believe it would ever be appropriate to accuse/charge her of a homicide without the most concrete egregious evidence of her willful intent.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:46 am to Pere_bear
quote:
the quality or condition of being an individual person
Sure.
quote:
Our DNA sequence is what makes us individual and unique.
OK, but your DNA sequence doesn't make you a person.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:48 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
OK, but your DNA sequence doesn't make you a person.
It makes you human, and that's the same thing, isn't it?
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:48 am to CptRusty
quote:
It makes you human, and that's the same thing, isn't it?
No.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:48 am to PNW
quote:
Oh, hypotheticals.
You were only 4 minutes early. Look down a couple of posts for a real doozy! You and Messcort should get a room.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:48 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
No.
when is a human not a person?
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:50 am to CptRusty
quote:
when is a human not a person?
Prior to developing into a person...
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:51 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Prior to developing into a person...
when you're ready to have an adult discussion I'll be around.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:53 am to CptRusty
quote:
when you're ready to have an adult discussion I'll be around.
If you want to be lazy and weak-minded, I certainly won't stand in the way. You asked simple questions and received simple, and correct answers.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 7:57 am to CptRusty
Rusty, a large part of this entire thread has been ABOUT the fetus’ development into a person. Did you want him to restate things that had been said in-depth several times?
Granted, it has been a long thread.
Granted, it has been a long thread.
This post was edited on 7/16/18 at 8:06 am
Posted on 7/16/18 at 8:02 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
If you want to be lazy and weak-minded, I certainly won't stand in the way.
I've already written several lengthy posts discussing this issue in this thread. I bumped it b/c josh and I were having a pleasant conversation and he indicated he'd like for it to continue when I have time.
I'll reiterate, if you'd like to have this discussion I'm more than happy, but if you want to act like a child then I'm completely uninterested.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 8:04 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Rusty, a large part of this entire thread has been ABOUT the fetus’ development into a person.
Yep. See my post above where I describe my position on this topic. If you disagree, then great we have something to talk about.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 8:07 am to CptRusty
I think you missed my point. You asked questions that had already been answered and got snippy when he gave succinct answers rather than long, repetitive ones.
Posted on 7/16/18 at 8:11 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
I got a question for anyone. How do I react to a female that had no qualms about telling me she had an abortion and seemed a little proud of the fact and then about a year or so later she was seeking sympathy for a miscarriage?
I would laugh in her face.
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