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Message
re: All the talk on Roe V. Wade
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:03 pm to Perfect Circle
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:03 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
If you don't want babies, don't have sex...simple, right? Or in the very least, if you MUST fornicate, use protection.
You're wasting your time. You may as well try to explain physics to a frog...or a dog.
0
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:05 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
f my SO gets pregnant while taking her birth control as prescribed, I would say that her actions (having sex) are indeed an "unrelated activity" t
Does the pill she's taking advertise 100% effectiveness? No? Then children are a possible (albeit remote) outcome and should factor into your decision making accordingly
quote:
Now, both having sex and stringing up nets caused the pregnancy/helicopter crash, respectively, but neither were the intended consequence when the action was engaged in.
If you are aware of the potential outcome of your actions, however remote, then your intentions are irrelevant, you are still responsible for that outcome if it comes to fruition.
quote:
What if help won't arrive for nine months, and keeping him alive is going to be an extreme hardship for me?
Then you shouldn't have put up the bird nets without the resources to deal with the possible downed helo pilot.
quote:
Still going to lock me in a cage if I tell him to take a hike?
Yes. You knew the bird nets could down his helo and chose to put them up anyway, then refused him aid. He died as a direct result of your carless actions.
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:06 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Self-awareness is one definition (or component) of sentience, depending upon who you read
quote:
This is why so many of these semantic arguments are totally specious.
Ummm...yeah.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:08 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Tell me whether you mean (for instance) “fertilization” or “implantation” ... and why. And why this point rather than another.
easy: fertilization.
At that point there now a unique organism (life) which did not exist prior.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:08 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
You should probably look up the word "expend".
You're not very good at spinning away from a debate you're losing.
In the context of the topic and your response to comments, what is it that you meant by being expendable?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:09 pm to CptRusty
quote:
If you are aware that the outcome of your actions, however remote, then your intentions are irrelevant.
Why?
There's a non-zero chance that the next time I reheat my tea in the microwave, it will rip a hole in the fabric of the space-time continuum, creating a vortex that sucks you in and tears you to pieces.
If that happens, should I be locked in a cage for your murder? After all, I knew it could happen.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:12 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
There's a non-zero chance that the next time I reheat my tea in the microwave, it will rip a hole in the fabric of the space-time continuum, creating a vortex that sucks you in and tears you to pieces.
If that happens, should I be locked in a cage for your murder? After all, I knew it could happen.
I do not accept the premise. If this ever happens then we can have the discussion, otherwise it's a bit of a red herring.Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:13 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
No personhood argument, no care.
In the context of abortion...what did you mean by this comment?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:13 pm to Dale51
quote:
You're not very good at spinning away from a debate you're losing.
In the context of the topic and your response to comments, what is it that you meant by being expendable?
I just searched the words "expend" and "expendable" in my post history. Other than in response to your posts in this thread, I have never used either of those two words in my near decade of posting on this board. As such, I have never referred to anything as expendable. Therefore, you are entirely full of shite. Take your bullshite rhetorical games elsewhere.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:15 pm to Dale51
quote:
In the context of abortion...what did you mean by this comment?
In the context of an abortion debate, it means that I'm not interested in having one if it doesn't center on a discussion of personhood.
I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to make of this.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:16 pm to AggieHank86
Hank, I see no falseness in my reasoning.
Kudos to you for allowing your daughters to be born. I'm sure it was an equal decision between you and your wife, and that you're grateful, and wouldn't have it any other way. What a blessing children are!
I'm sure you really believe this, but the fact remains...abortion on demand is real.
Kudos to you for allowing your daughters to be born. I'm sure it was an equal decision between you and your wife, and that you're grateful, and wouldn't have it any other way. What a blessing children are!
quote:
Do some women forego all birth control in favor of abortion? Probably, but I doubt they are anything approaching a minority.
I'm sure you really believe this, but the fact remains...abortion on demand is real.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:16 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
We just do not see those factors as being determinative as to the vesting of rights.
Then what...in your mind..do you find to be determinative in the vesting of rights? Who is doing the "vesting" in your mind?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:17 pm to CptRusty
quote:
I do not accept the premise. If this ever happens then we can have the discussion, otherwise it's a bit of a red herring.
Nuh uh, not so fast
If my intentions don't matter, and the mere knowledge of potential causality is sufficient, why aren't I culpable?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:17 pm to Joshjrn
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:19 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
Ahhh and here we finally get to the real meat of it. Conservative christians trying to force their values on others and stop them from having sex.
This is just dumb. It's not 1954 and there are multiple means of avoiding pregnancy for a responsible person. You make women sound helpless and too dumb to know this. So misogynist of you.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:21 pm to Pere_bear
quote:
Now in the pregnancy process, when the sperm contacts an ovum, it ends with the intermingling of chromosomes from both the sperm and ovum to produce a full set of chromosomes. 46 in most humans. The result is a zygote. At this point (far before a woman knows she’s even pregnant) what has developed is something completely unique and different than the mother. What makes us different and human is our own DNA sequence. Since this is the case, how can it be okay to take that unique being (regardless of how unlike it is to looks of a human being) when in fact it is a life developing and human?
Not disagreeing with you, but since Dems and progressives see nothing wrong with abortion on demand until the head pops out, let's start with the easy stuff:
Beating heart? Check.
Brain? Check.
Ability to feel pain? Check.
Then it's a living human being that deserves to have rights of its own.
And if you want to get into the the more abstract, does it have a mind and soul?
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:22 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
Should all acts of human behavior be dictated by the King's bible or just the one that will stop others from having dirty devilish sex?
Yes, all acts.
Hey, you asked!
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:22 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Nuh uh, not so fast
If my intentions don't matter, and the mere knowledge of potential causality is sufficient, why aren't I culpable?
OK, if wormholes were a 1 in 10,000 possibility for every use of the microwave, then yes, if you accidentally killed someone by using the microwave, then a couple of things would be true:
1 - You knew there was the possibility of a wormhole. This would have been informed by historical precedent, not just unrealized theory. (it wouldn't have been the first wormhole ever to result from tea-reheating
) 2- You chose to use the microwave with full knowledge of the above.
...so yes, manslaughter for you. Maybe that sounds harsh, but unless I'm mistake, that's how our legal system works.
Similar situation, without the wormholes:
If I go outside and fire a rifle straight up into the air, there is a remote possibility that the bullet will come down and strike someone. I certainly hope it does not...but in the unlikely event that it does, I could absolutely be convicted of manslaughter (at least)
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:25 pm to Dale51
quote:
This is just dumb. It's not 1954 and there are multiple means of avoiding pregnancy for a responsible person. You make women sound helpless and too dumb to know this. So misogynist of you.
No what's dumb is thinking birth control will be as available to women as it currently is once abortion is banned everywhere. That's dumb as the bible thumpers will be trying to ban condoms and birth control pills next.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:25 pm to CptRusty
quote:
If I go outside and fire a rifle straight up into the air, there is a remote possibility that the bullet will come down and strike someone. I certainly hope it does not...but in the unlikely event that it does, I could absolutely be convicted of manslaughter (at least)
Negligent Homicide at best.
LINK
But in your hypothet, my negligence is actively snuffing out the life of someone who legally has full personhood. You're begging the question.
What level of personhood does the fetus have, and what rights, both positive and negative, go with that designation?
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 4:28 pm
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