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re: Can dignity exist in a capitalist society?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:03 am to Y.A. Tittle
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:03 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
In a vacuum?
What economic system would you like to discuss that would answer the question in the OP?
3
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:03 am to 4cubbies
quote:
That’s not how capitalism works in practice.
Because you don't like the free choices people make doesn't mean that there is freedom to make those choices.
You sound like a big MAGA type now. This is their exact rhetoric around MAGA-centric regulations like tariffs.
quote:
Where does capitalism equal freedom?
Everywhere it exists. That's the literal basis of capitalism.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:04 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Where does capitalism equal freedom?
Many many choices.
Without it, youre stuck with a government monopoly.
Do you prefer monopolies?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:04 am to 4cubbies
Yes.
Can a socialist or Marxist society exist without the leaders and their chosen favorites propping themselves up to always have more than the rest?
Can a socialist or Marxist society exist without the leaders and their chosen favorites propping themselves up to always have more than the rest?
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 10:05 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:04 am to 4cubbies
quote:
quote:
In a vacuum?
What economic system would you like to discuss that would answer the question in the OP?
Whichever one you believe might be more "humanizing" than capitalism?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:04 am to 4cubbies
quote:
What economic system would you like to discuss that would answer the question in the OP?
What gives you dignity?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:05 am to 4cubbies
If you find it hard to treat people like people because of consumerism, then that’s on you.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:06 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I’m only discussing capitalism.
What system dignifies humans? All see the human as a means to prop up the system and keep society from collapsing. Humans are basically cattle for the top 1% in almost all other systems.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:06 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Capitalism treats humans as a means to an end (profit)
Which society offers more generosity to other humans, communist or capitalist?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:07 am to BayouBlitz
quote:why does it reward yard work, intelligence, discipline? Because those things yield profit, right? So hard work, etc isn’t what is valued, the profit is.
Capitalism rewards greed. Undeniable.
It also rewards hard work, intelligence, and discipline.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 10:07 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:07 am to 4cubbies
But the answer is, a “capitalist society” is now the only type that can give “dignity” a chance, especially with any community consisting of more than a thousand people living in a bush. And even then I don’t think their definition of “dignity” would comport with the west’s.
It’s a necessary but insufficient condition of “dignity.”
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:08 am to 4cubbies
quote:
So hard work, etc isn’t what is valued, the profit is.
So profit is the motivating factor. There IS a motivating factor.
What is the motivating factor in other systems?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:08 am to 4cubbies
My question is, why are Americans so obsessed with either or?
I think it's been proven time and time again that purely ideological systems don't work, and what has proven robust and flexible are are hybrid systems. There should be a natural tension between more or less government intervention that ebbs and flows as the environment dictates.
The concentration of capital can be just as harmful to a society as the distribution of capital.
I think it's been proven time and time again that purely ideological systems don't work, and what has proven robust and flexible are are hybrid systems. There should be a natural tension between more or less government intervention that ebbs and flows as the environment dictates.
The concentration of capital can be just as harmful to a society as the distribution of capital.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:09 am to BugAC
quote:
If you find it hard to treat people like people because of consumerism, then that’s on you.
Her issue is likely the impact of mistakes in a system more geared towards freedom. Leftism tries to turn capitalism into a society based on imposing institutions because that's how they see the world, and in committing to this framing, they have to impute failure to these forces on humans. This becomes amplified as humans in a more free system are permitted to form group cultures around these suboptimal outcomes from failures, which often turn into pathology. Hence, "capitalism" (these perceived institutional ghost forces) created indignity.
Here is a much more apt description of capitalism:
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:09 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Because those things yield profit, right? So hard work, etc isn’t what is valued, the profit is.
How would you propose to measure "value" instead?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Because you don't like the free choices people make doesn't mean that there is freedom to make those choices.
What are you referring to?
quote:ok. I wouldn’t know because I don’t follow MAGA.
You sound like a big MAGA type now. This is their exact rhetoric around MAGA-centric regulations like tariffs.
This is stemming from a conversation I had with one of my professors yesterday related to human dignity.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
why does it reward yard work, intelligence, discipline?
Those traits severely increase the chance of more optimal outcomes.
The opposite of these traits severely increase the chance of more suboptimal outcomes.
Note: I specifically used "increase the chance" and not "guarantee.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:11 am to Zap Rowsdower
quote:
their chosen favorites propping themselves up to always have more than the rest?
Sounds like you’re describing Congress.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
This is stemming from a conversation I had with one of my professors yesterday related to human dignity.
What gives you dignity?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:12 am to 4cubbies
quote:
What are you referring to?
Your comment
quote:
That’s not how capitalism works in practice.
quote:
This is stemming from a conversation I had with one of my professors yesterday
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