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Started By
Message
re: Cost of illegal immigration
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:40 pm to biscuitsngravy
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:40 pm to biscuitsngravy
quote:
biscuitsngravy
So by your link you do realize that there is still a net drain of $79M to $43M. Why not fix the system where you have work VISAs and capture the taxes off the work....like all legal businesses and tax payers have to pay into the system?
This post was edited on 11/9/18 at 12:41 pm
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Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:40 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
You see them all over town doing work that Americans could be doing. They're doing it because they will do it for less money than Americans will and will subject themselves working conditions that others would not for a similar rate.
Your argument is just sad. Every country, including the United States, has a portion of their workforce that cannot compete for high skilled labor positions. It is each individual country's responsibility to do what's best for all of their people. This responsibility comes at the cost of excluding those who are not citizens, even if employers and their allies would prefer them due to their depressed wage requirements.
And this responsibility does not only apply to low skilled labor. Employers often do the same thing by importing labor from abroad for engineering, science, programming and other research opportunities. In my community, one major employer regularly imports foreign labor for engineering and computer related jobs. It's not because they cannot find Americans to do the work. It's because paying an American engineer or programmer would require a cut to their profits.
Your argument is just sad. Every country, including the United States, has a portion of their workforce that cannot compete for high skilled labor positions. It is each individual country's responsibility to do what's best for all of their people. This responsibility comes at the cost of excluding those who are not citizens, even if employers and their allies would prefer them due to their depressed wage requirements.
And this responsibility does not only apply to low skilled labor. Employers often do the same thing by importing labor from abroad for engineering, science, programming and other research opportunities. In my community, one major employer regularly imports foreign labor for engineering and computer related jobs. It's not because they cannot find Americans to do the work. It's because paying an American engineer or programmer would require a cut to their profits.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:45 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
But it would also be naive to think these people are just a drain. Because you see them all over town either working or looking for work.
Honest question... except for a very small number of industry instances, almost zero reputable economists disagree with the fact that illegal immigration depresses wages, which disproportionally affects the poor. Is this important to you or not?
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:47 pm to ABearsFanNMS
Some people in America sit at home, other people look for work.
It’s as if you don’t realize they are the ones cutting the grass, pouring the concrete, doing the housekeeping, bussing the tables, building the houses, etc.
It’s as if you don’t realize they are the ones cutting the grass, pouring the concrete, doing the housekeeping, bussing the tables, building the houses, etc.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:50 pm to JPinLondon
Well once you convince all these people paying low wages to just cut it out, maybe the incentive will dry up.
But right now it’s as simple as supply and demand.
But right now it’s as simple as supply and demand.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:51 pm to Chuker
quote:
As PBS put it, "costs for an uneducated migrant are similar to the costs of an uneducated American."
Pain from a papercut is similar to pain from a splinter so, it shouldn't matter if you have 1 papercut or a million papercuts because comparing one to another one makes no sense.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:52 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
Well once you convince all these people paying low wages to just cut it out, maybe the incentive will dry up.
You can live on welfare in America without a real job and have a better life than at least 80% of the rest of the planet, why not end the welfare system as well?
Or you can end the influx of labor and force the company to pay enough for Americans to work the jobs.
Or both.
Or all three.
This post was edited on 11/9/18 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:57 pm to jnethe1
quote:
the cost of the presence of 12.5 million illegal aliens and their 4.2 million citizen children
That isn't even close to the real number.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:04 pm to Nguyener
As an example- look at the war on drugs campaign. We all know the war on drugs has been a failure.
So the people who were saying, “let’s just end the influx of drugs” seemed to think it made sense, but in reality, it didn’t. Why? Supply and Demand.
And sure, you can end welfare and then deal with the consequences. I suspect it would look more like armed guards at neighborhood streets or perched on the walls of affluent homes.
So the people who were saying, “let’s just end the influx of drugs” seemed to think it made sense, but in reality, it didn’t. Why? Supply and Demand.
And sure, you can end welfare and then deal with the consequences. I suspect it would look more like armed guards at neighborhood streets or perched on the walls of affluent homes.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:07 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
look at the war on drugs campaign. We all know the war on drugs has been a failure.
So the people who were saying, “let’s just end the influx of drugs” seemed to think it made sense, but in reality, it didn’t. Why? Supply and Demand.
I completely agree. The solution is to legalize and regulate drugs instead of insentivizing a black market with a coupled brutal crackdown on the black market.
Similarly, this takes a two prong approach: 1) work for welfare. Have the government supplement the wages of these company's workers, you don't work then you don't get benefits, while cracking down hard on anyone who employees illegals.
This post was edited on 11/9/18 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:08 pm to jnethe1
Gee the fiscally concerned Dixrider hasn't strolled on in here.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:18 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
They are finding work and earning money, and the labor is their contribution.
thats not how this works... thats not how any of this works!!! They arent paying TAXES you twit, but they are using tax dollars for EVERYTHING!! Education, healthcare, roads, court cost, police and jail cost, ambulances.... the 20 million that arent working can do those jobs if congress would write legislation to force them to work for their tax payer funded help!!! nimrod...
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:20 pm to Nguyener
Well the dirty little secret is that nobody has had the appetite to crack down on those who employ immigrants who are here illegally. It’s been the same discussion for decades. My guess is that in reality, there are far too many people with influence on govt officials that don’t want a crackdown. Either that, or there are just too many work around that employers have figured out. You know Jim’s construction or Bill’s fencing, or Joe’s Crab Shack, or AAS Lawn Care are going to fight that idea or risk losing their profits.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:30 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
Jim’s construction or Bill’s fencing, or Joe’s Crab Shack, or AAS Lawn Care are going to fight that idea or risk losing their profits.
That's why I'm saying you create a work for welfare system. Have the government subsidize the labor costs for low skill jobs in exchange for an end to many broken and corrupt entitlement programs.
I would never work in the real world because welfare has created an entire generation of lazy entitled shitty apathetic people, and government is too corrupt, inept, and pathetic to properly oversee such a program, but it's a nice thought.
Can you imagine going to the poorest shittiest neighborhoods in this country and trying to teach them how to build houses, install roofs, lawn care, fencing, etc...? Of course not. They'd show up late and abusing substances and sue the first time they stubbed a toe and unionize and demand 4 day 3 hour work weeks.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:39 pm to Nguyener
Yeah, a nice thought. And in the meantime, we got folks from Guatemala showing up to the work site ready to go and not strung out on drugs.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:40 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
Yes, but not all of them work. And a large percentage of those that work still depend upon government assistance in a lot of forms. Here’s another problem, by bringing in these people you’re going to keep wages from ever growing. We keep hearing how the minimum wage should be increased, yet we are allowing a situation in which seemingly endless cheap labor continues to come into this country. This endless cheap labor will result in the wages never increasing, and in actuality when the economy goes down (and it will) wages will fall below what they currently are. Are you ok with them coming from countries which receive aid from America, then leaving that country coming to America, and when they arrive they take government assistance, and they keep wage growth from ever being a reality for the rest of America? Is this honestly something you’re ok with?
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:40 pm to jnethe1
quote:
The top three states based on total cost to state taxpayers for illegal immigrants and their children: California ($23 billion); Texas ($10.9 billion), and New York ($7.5 billion).
If its $1 then it's a dollar too much
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:41 pm to biscuitsngravy
Did you read any of the original post?
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:51 pm to jnethe1
The people paying the wages are certainly ok with it. You’d have to ask them.
And the financial aid development programs to these Latin American countries should probably be a separate topic. The political implications would have to be considered along with the economics.
And the financial aid development programs to these Latin American countries should probably be a separate topic. The political implications would have to be considered along with the economics.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 1:54 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
It’s as if you don’t realize they are the ones cutting the grass, pouring the concrete, doing the housekeeping, bussing the tables, building the houses, etc.
I am not debating that. Do you think all these people are paying taxes? If they not paying taxes do you think they are not also using the resources paid for by tax payers?
So basically do you think it is a “right” for you to walk into Chick-fil-a, and order a nice tasty sandwich with crispy fries and a large drink, pay for the nice tasty sandwich with crispy fries and large drink. I walk up to you take said tasty sandwich with crispy fries and large drink and proceed to eat it in front of you and tell you every time you order it and spend your money I will continue to take it and eat it because it is my right and I do work others supposedly won’t do.
How would you feel about that? Now explain how this is different in what we are facing in our Country?
This post was edited on 11/9/18 at 1:56 pm
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