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re: Does it matter what the "Founders intentions" were?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:00 pm to LongueCarabine
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:00 pm to LongueCarabine
What, no Somalia?
1
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:02 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
What, no Somalia?
Que? What about Somalia? Am I supposed to care about Somalia?
My attitude is if Somalia wants a change, let them fight for it. That's what we did back in the 1780s and 1790s.
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:07 pm to LongueCarabine
No, that's just what people (typically liberals) tell anarchist to go, because they don't understand what anarchism (or voluntaryism) is. Anarchism isn't just the absence of government, but order and rules without rulers (leaders will always be present). What people typically think of when they think of anarchy is the aftermath of failed states. Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:09 pm to Patrick O Rly
Are you praising the conditions in Somalia? You think that would be a good society to live in?
LC
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:10 pm to LongueCarabine
Somalia > Mississippi
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:14 pm to LongueCarabine
No, I'm not. Like I said, it's condition is the aftermath of a failed state.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:21 pm to Patrick O Rly
Well, you have a choice.
Not sure what you are trying to get at, seriously, although I suspect this is going to have a lot to do with taxes and how they should properly be collected and what they should be spent on.
LC
Not sure what you are trying to get at, seriously, although I suspect this is going to have a lot to do with taxes and how they should properly be collected and what they should be spent on.
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 8:58 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
Well, you have a choice.
And what is that? Leave the country?
quote:
Not sure what you are trying to get at, seriously, although I suspect this is going to have a lot to do with taxes and how they should properly be collected and what they should be spent on.
I don't believe in taxation period.
Even if you do believe in taxation, the government has already spent all the taxes you'll ever pay several times over, and has lost any legitimacy it may have had. It's not an equitable form of representation. Your taxes are being used to pay interest and curb inflation that is resulting from their monetary policies.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:10 pm to Patrick O Rly
I hate taxes as much as anyone, but there is a certain level of government that is necessary. I believe that level should be as small as possible.
I don't think it's realistic to expect no government at all.
You don't have to leave the country, although that is a choice. You can also refuse to pay your taxes and take up your cause in the judicial system.
LC
I don't think it's realistic to expect no government at all.
You don't have to leave the country, although that is a choice. You can also refuse to pay your taxes and take up your cause in the judicial system.
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:12 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
I don't think it's realistic to expect no government at all.
I guess the best way to explain my position is, yes, there are some necessary services that the government is currently providing, but I believe they can be funded in a voluntary/cooperative manner.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:15 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
I believe they can be funded in a voluntary/cooperative manner.
Well, good luck with that. Truly, if you can find a way it can be done, I'll be the first to tip my hat to you.
LC
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:22 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
There are voluntary forms of order and governance. In our system, you are taxed whether you consent or not, which I believe is immoral.
you agree to live in america. You would be protected by its military if it were attacked.
I assume you would want firemen to put out your house if it was on fire.
Taxes aren't immoral. I think we may spend them in immoral ways.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:23 pm to Patrick O Rly
The case that gave to us Marbury vs Madison, and the one that had the Oliver Wendell Holmes court tell us that the document was an organic document to be interpreted by the judges at any given time have a whole lot to do with how the document is viewed today.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:24 pm to LongueCarabine
It is and has been done. Whether it will work or not isn't the problem. It's that there's quite a few people that have a problem with people ruling themselves.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:28 pm to Zach
quote:
I submit that as the most meaningless quote of the week.
Let me try to out do you.. "I submit that goodness is better than badness."
Sums the OP and this thread up nicely
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:30 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
It is and has been done. Whether it will work or not isn't the problem. It's that there's quite a few people that have a problem with people ruling themselves.
If it's ever been done in a society that approaches the population and diversity of the U.S., I'd be interested to hear about it. I just don't think it's possible in a nation of 300 million or whatever.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:30 pm to LongueCarabine
quote:
Well then, take your chances with anarchy, I guess. Let us know how that works out for you.
It wouldn't have lasted 200+ years...
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:33 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
you agree to live in america. You would be protected by its military if it were attacked.
Where else would I live? I was born here. My entire family is here. Does that mean implied consent to the government and everything it does? What gives them legitimate claim to rule over everyone? Because you spent a butt load on a military (a size which we don't even need) that I didn't ask you to, I'm obliged to be in servitude and assume the debt that was used to purchase and upkeep it?
quote:
I assume you would want firemen to put out your house if it was on fire.
What does that have to do with anything? You think I don't want firemen?
quote:
Taxes aren't immoral. I think we may spend them in immoral ways.
Taxes are immoral. Monopolies are immoral. Paying for what you use isn't.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:34 pm to bamafan1001
OP I still dont get your point. Do you really believe no government is a viable way for people to live?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 9:36 pm to VOR
quote:
If it's ever been done in a society that approaches the population and diversity of the U.S., I'd be interested to hear about it. I just don't think it's possible in a nation of 300 million or whatever.
Oh, it would never reach that level. It would be stamped down long before then.
I'm not trying to say there's going to be widespread anarchy. They'll be small pockets at best, but I do want to drop the pretense that our current system is equitable, moral or consensual.
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