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re: Does Satanism exist without Christianity?
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:44 am to Padme
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:44 am to Padme
quote:
I don’t study evolution because I think it’s ridiculous.
Your loss.
Evolution is real. You don't have to believe that evolution led to apes becoming humans to believe in evolution. All you have to do is look at a miniature poodle and think about its genetic line back to wolves to understand that Evolution is real.
1
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:49 am to Azkiger
quote:
even learned behaviors fall under the spirit of the theory of evolution.
They can, absolutely. But altruism is also viewed through contemporary societal lenses.
One mans freedom fighter is another's criminal.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Your loss.
Why? There are subjects you know a lot about and subjects you know very little about.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:51 am to Padme
Yes, satan was influencing man’s behavior before Jesus was born.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:53 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The only context is the goal that drives certain actions...
That's not true, at all. The context builds the goal. How can you make a goal without knowing any information (context)? Should you throw a spear at that thing in front of you? That depends, is that thing in front of you the woman you're having sex with, a crouching tiger, or just a damn tree? Context matters.
quote:
...and neither the actions nor the goals can be necessarily and truly "good" or "bad" in an objective sense without an objective moral law.
Completely irrelevant to evolutionary adaptations.
quote:
Hatred for fellow man can also help build society, just in a different way. Killing a competing tribe mate may be good for both you and procreation, as you no longer have competition for the prospective mate you desire, especially if she is one of the only available options.
It could. Or it could weaken social bonds and remove a strong hunter from your tribe. If every man killed men who took a woman, you'd only have one man left in a tribe. And that man would likely be all mangled and beaten up from killing all the other men (who undoubtedly fought back). That doesn't sound like a tribe that's going to be hunting well, or defending itself against outside threats (say, other tribes whose men didn't kill each other and are healthier and more numerous or even other predators).
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:54 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
One mans freedom fighter is another's criminal.
And yet, ultimately, empathy in various amounts either help a group succeed or harms it. And based on whatever the results of that end up being, helps determine how much empathy we as people have.
This post was edited on 12/18/23 at 11:55 am
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:55 am to Flats
quote:
Why?
Understanding the evolutionary root of humanity gives you an advantage in dealing with humans.
For example, marketing:
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:56 am to Slim
That is, born in human form, correct. But the Lord existed before satan, and therefore Christianity didn’t begin when a baby was born in Bethlehem, it just began to be revealed.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:God revealed how: He made man in His image and impressed the moral law on the hearts of mankind so that we, by nature, know what is right and wrong, but in our sinful natures twist and pervert it to our own ends.
If Christianity is the objective morality, then how did societies have moral overlap prior to exposure to Christianity? Was it luck?
quote:The moral standard of God has not changed and will never change. How sinful humans twist that and apply it can change over time. There is a difference between the moral standard and the application of said standard.
Yes, and religious morality has, as well. That's the point.
quote:I have. A lot.
Think about what you just said.
quote:I realize how they are inter-connected. God gave humans the ability to reason as part of being His image-bearers. Our ability to reason will never lead us to objective moral truth on its own, though. That's why I said what I initially said. There are some that think that reason is all we need to know true morality. True morality has to exist first for reason to help us understand it, and that's what I've been trying to explain for many pages now.
You fail to realize just how inter-connected these 2 things are.
quote:Reason is certainly used, but there is also a spiritual component that is being excluded (for good reason; we haven't had the opportunity to focus on it). The Scriptures say: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14). This is talking about the work of God by His Spirit to enlighten the minds and understanding of people to not just know the truth but to understand it rightly. Man's reason alone isn't going to get anyone there, since our reasoning abilities are fallen.
Well, other Christian sects disagree with you. Both of you base your beliefs on "objective morality" and reason isn't relied upon in the analysis of morality, so where are we?
With all that said, perhaps the issue of disagreement within Christian sects/denominations is not with the standard but with the sinfulness of those applying reason to that standard. I've seen many leaps of logic given by the "progressive Christians" that completely ignore most of what the Bible says in favor of a few verses taken out of context that no Christian prior to the last few decades understood the way these woke progressives understand it. Reason alone isn't going to get us to truth.
quote:Like I've said, reasoning alone won't get you to an objective moral standard nor have you understand it rightly. That's why I introduced the spiritual element. The only objective moral standard comes from God through His revelation. In order to correctly reason towards that understanding, you first have to believe in the Biblical God and believe that His revelation is truly His revelation, and believe that He holds humans accountable to that revelation of a moral standard. If you don't start with the belief in that objective moral standard, you'll never be able to reason to it, and you certainly won't accept it for what it is.
The problem is deciding what that objective standard is, specifically.
If you have to rely on the same reasoning process to decide which morality is "objective", then you're literally just using reasoning to create your own perception of morality.
quote:I'm not distancing myself from anything. I acknowledge that sinners sin and abuse God's perfect standard all the time, including those in the visible church.
I didn't frame my comments in this way, nor did I use the intra-faith conflicts as a way to demonize Christianity. There has literally never once been a single set version of Christianity available to the masses. People rely on the same reasoning process to choose their version of Christianity (and its "objective" morality) as people who reason their perception of morality.
Trying to distance yourself from this is pure ego.
The "single set version of Christianity available to the masses" is the Bible, itself. It's been available to the masses in differing amounts for nearly 2,000 years. You, again, are conflating the standard with the application of the standard.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 11:59 am to SlowFlowPro
That’s funny, but that would be ‘human nature’ not ‘the evolutionary root of humanity’.
You might as well say evolution is true because of the evolutionary root.
You might as well say evolution is true because of the evolutionary root.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Understanding the evolutionary root of humanity gives you an advantage in dealing with humans.
Not really. Understanding what the tricks are and basic incentive behavior does the exact same thing. Knowing what the traits are that makes one vulnerable is far more valuable than being able to to a Ted talk on how those traits evolved.
I can make the argument that almost any and all knowledge gives one an advantage, but the fact remains that nobody has all knowledge. We're all going to pick & choose the areas we find interesting.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Yes, and I agree that simply saying it's based on a religious belief system generally is the same thing. That's why I've been very clear to say that morality isn't based on "a religious belief system", but the very nature and character of the biblical God.
When someone makes a claim that morality is based on a religious belief system, they are attempting to ground morality in something concrete and universal, in order to say that morality is essentially objective.
See how that works?
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:That's a shame. There are true salivation issues associated with that.
I know a lot of Christians who believe in evolution, plate tectonics, etc.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:03 pm to Padme
quote:
That’s funny, but that would be ‘human nature’ not ‘the evolutionary root of humanity’.
You should read up on evolutionary psychology. It's a science.
quote:
You might as well say evolution is true because of the evolutionary root.
Evolution is true because it's something that exists.
Again, this doesn't mean you have to believe every theory of evolution. Just like how climate change exists, but human-caused climate change is much more specious.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:05 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I know a lot of Christians who believe in evolution, plate tectonics, etc.
That's a shame. There are true salivation issues associated with that.
Sounds like youre arbitrating salvation.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:07 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Sounds like youre arbitrating salvation.
He has been this entire thread.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
psychology. It's a science.
Errr.. ... many would disagree that any form of Psychology is an actual Science.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Sounds like youre arbitrating salvation.
He has been this entire thread.
Think Ive read something in the good book about not doing that.
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That's a shame. There are true salivation issues associated with that.
Wait, what?
Posted on 12/18/23 at 12:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That's why I've been very clear to say that morality isn't based on "a religious belief system", but the very nature and character of the biblical God.
If this is the case, it seems like that nature and character has changed over time.
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