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re: Epstein maximalists: please step off the crazy train
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:16 am to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:16 am to Big Scrub TX
Michael Tracey literally fricking questions the age of consent, as in, he wants it lowered.
He's a POS pervert is what he is
He's a POS pervert is what he is
0
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:17 am to LookSquirrel
If (BIG frickING IF) this is indeed true, it would be one of the greatest moments in recorded human history
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:20 am to Flats
quote:
Was that a different Epstein?
Did the same Epstein kill himself after the 2008-2009 prosecution?
quote:
The entire point of this topic is to dismiss and minimize everything Epstein did.
No. That's a straw man.
It's about minimizing all the allegations for people other than Maxwell/Epstein, because there is jack shite for direct-credible evidence for allegations against these people. Even Andrew is primarily associated with VG, who is nearly completely discredited at this point.
There are purportedly tons of victims. Many of whom had had the opportunity to testify. All of them have the ability to speak openly about their accusations. Why have basically 0 come forward against anyone other than Epstein/Maxwell? Why are they all essentially only connected to those 2? You'd think after 20+ years of doing this to purportedly thousands of women, you'd find at least a couple who could identify all of these other participants.
And look at all the scalps from the files. Lots of people are facing issues that have nothing to do with sex (with anyone, legal or otherwise). Then look at the people who kept associated with JE who aren't facing issues right now, like Lutnick. Clearly JE/GM kept associating with these people in ways that had nothing to do with sex (legal or otherwise), which indicates there was a lot of "innocent cocktail parties" to use your terms.
This post was edited on 3/4/26 at 7:22 am
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No. That's a straw man.
You don't know what a straw man is.
quote:
It's about minimizing all the allegations for people other than Maxwell/Epstein, because there is jack shite for evidence for allegations against these people. Even Andrew is primarily associated with VG, who is nearly completely discredited at this point.
Exactly. The only person who was dumb enough to get on camera is Andrew, so that one you have to attempt to sweep under the rug and pretend it's a big nothing burger. Since we don't have video and a spreadsheet of who he blackmailed and for how much, then obviously that stuff couldn't have happened, despite the fact that one of the specific actions that got Andrew was giving Epstein information.
Again, if you want to look at the totality of the Epstein story and decide that the women were all just for Epstein and totes unrelated to his elevation into the financial/power elite, go ahead. The hidden cameras and viewing room are completely normal and the guy was just really horny. The ties to Mossad are just a coincidence, sorta like the CCTV malfunction.
I'm not that dumb.
This post was edited on 3/4/26 at 7:30 am
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:38 am to Flats
quote:
Exactly. The only person who was dumb enough to get on camera is Andrew
What? Where is this camera evidence?
quote:
Since we don't have video and a spreadsheet of who he blackmailed and for how much, then obviously that stuff couldn't have happened
So you admit you have no actual evidence to base this argument on?
You're relying on the "the lack of evidence IS the evidence" rhetoric?
quote:
despite the fact that one of the specific actions that got Andrew was giving Epstein information.
Which was publicly disclosed in the files.
quote:
Again, if you want to look at the totality of the Epstein story and decide that the women were all just for Epstein and totes unrelated to his elevation into the financial/power elite, go ahead.
Show me the direct and credible evidence to think otherwise and I will reevaluate.
Do you have any?
And I see you're pivoting away from the actual conversation being had (the claims of sexual illegality of people other than Epstein and Maxwell), so try to keep on topic with your response.
What is your direct and credible evidence to support your argument?
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:39 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
If YOU would educate yourself, you would understand this is one of the very points Tracey makes. He was convicted of soliciting prostitution from a girl that was one day shy of her 18th birthday.
Do you understand there is an absolute legal definition of sex trafficking. Do you understand that he was convicted. Do you understand that is different than a plea. Which was for solicitation of prostitution. A conviction is different than a plea do you understand that?
Do you understand there is a specific legal definition for sex trafficking?
This post was edited on 3/4/26 at 7:40 am
Posted on 3/4/26 at 7:57 am to dafif
quote:
Do you understand there is an absolute legal definition of sex trafficking.
You do realize the legal definition of "sex trafficking" has changed over time, right?
Reason: The War on Sex Trafficking Is the New War on Drugs
This article is from 2015, so not something written in any way in response to Epstein. I've been discussing this issue on this board for just as long (leading to emotional reactions and irrationality like I've never really seen elsewhere).
quote:
A few decades prior, a survey of "trafficking" headlines would have yielded much different results. Back then, newspapers recounted tales of "contemporary Al Capones trafficking illegal drugs to the smallest villages and towns in our heartland," and of organized "motorcycle gangs" trafficking LSD and hashish. "Many young black men in the ghetto see the drug trade as the Gold Rush of the 1980s," the Philadelphia Inquirer told readers in 1988. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) warned of a "nationwide phenomenon" of drug lords abducting young people to force them into the drug trade. Crack kingpins were rumored to target runaways, beating them if they didn't make drug sales quotas.
Such articles offered a breathless sense that the drug trade was booming, irresistible to criminals, and in desperate need of child foot soldiers. Lawmakers touted harsher penalties for drug offenses. The war on drugs raged. New task forces were created. Civilians were trained how to "spot" drug traffickers in the wild, and students instructed how to rat out drug-using parents. Politicians spoke of a drug "epidemic" overtaking America, its urgency obviously grounds for anything we could throw its way.
quote:
Forcing others into sex or any sort of labor is abhorrent, and it deserves to be treated like the serious violation it is. But the activity now targeted under anti-trafficking efforts includes everything from offering or soliciting paid sex, to living with a sex worker, to running a classified advertising website.
What's more, these new laws aren't organic responses by legislators in the face of an uptick in human trafficking activity or inadequate current statutes. They are in large part the result of a decades-long anti-prostitution crusade from Christian "abolitionists" and anti-sex feminists, pushed along by officials who know a good political opportunity when they see it and by media that never met a moral panic they didn't like.
The fire is fueled by federal money, which sends police departments and activist groups into a grant-grubbing frenzy. The anti-trafficking movement is "just one big federal grant program," Michael Hudson, a scholar with the conservative Hudson Institute, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. "Everybody is more worried about where they're going to get their next grant" than helping victims, Hudson said.
Because of the visceral feelings that the issue of paid sex has always provoked, it's easy for overstatements and false statistics to go unchallenged, winning repetition in congressional hearings and the press. Yet despite all the dire proclamations, there's little evidence of anything approaching an "epidemic" of sexual slavery.
quote:
Between 2008 and 2010, federally funded task forces investigated 2,515 suspected incidents of human trafficking, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. An "investigation" was defined as "any effort in which the task force spent at least one hour investigating" the incident. Of these cases, only 6 percent led to arrests. From 2007 to fall 2008, federal dollars funded 38 sex-trafficking task forces, of which 15 found no confirmed victims or suspects, 14 reported between one and four cases, and nine reported more than five. Of the total 1,229 suspected incidents that year, sex cops found just 14 underage victims.
"Given the obstacles to locating victims in black markets" some disparity between estimated numbers and confirmed cases should be expected, wrote the sociologist Ronald Weitzer in a 2011 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology paper. But "a huge disparity between the two should at least raise questions about the alleged scale of victimization."
quote:
This year's Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act made soliciting paid sex from a minor a form of federal sex trafficking; established a Domestic Trafficking Victims' Fund into which anyone convicted of trafficking must pay $5,000; and lowered the evidentiary standard for proving trafficking charges. The act also established that websites and publishers—from classified ad sites such as Craigslist to social media services such as Twitter and Reddit—may be charged with sex trafficking if any victim is found to have advertised there. And it created a "HERO corps" of military veterans who will work with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents to fight cybercrime, including "digital intellectual property theft" and "hidden marketplaces."
Sen. Cornyn called it a "first step."
quote:
In addition to federal anti-trafficking laws, states have been adopting a flurry of their own measures. In 2014 alone, 31 states passed new laws concerning human trafficking. Since the start of 2015, at least 22 states have done so.
quote:
In 21 states, "sex trafficking laws have been amended or originally enacted with the intent to decisively reach the action of buyers of sex," according to the anti-trafficking nonprofit Shared Hope International. In 2014, Michigan changed soliciting someone under 18 for sex from a misdemeanor to a felony sex offense. Florida recently stipulated that people found guilty of soliciting prostitution (from someone of any age) must do 100 hours of community service and attend "john school," where they will be educated on "the negative effects of prostitution and human trafficking."
Posted on 3/4/26 at 8:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Show me the direct and credible evidence to think otherwise and I will reevaluate.
Do you think you're a judge or something and I'm some fat divorce lawyer you called to the bench? I'm not playing the "direct and credible" game when you're the sole arbiter of what is "direct and credible".
Posted on 3/4/26 at 8:06 am to Flats
quote:
Do you think you're a judge or something
No. I use evidence to inform my personal analyses and opinions.
What do you use? Osteomancy? Ayahuasca?
quote:
I'm not playing the "direct and credible" game when you're the sole arbiter of what is "direct and credible".
Or, you're not playing because you lack a response.
This is where the Epstein CT discussions always end up. Wild allegations leading to people asking for support, and then the supporters of the theory trying to end the discussion at that point, claiming some form of absurdity or using straw men.
Posted on 3/4/26 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Or, you're not playing because you lack a response.
I'm genuinely curious. Are the people you interact with regularly on a professional basis so stupid that they play your "go get me a rock" game?
Posted on 3/4/26 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
So what do deniers makee of this? Just feds buying into hysteria
What about how JE tried to blackmail Bill Gates about his mistress? Yahoo Gates has confirmed he had an affair with a Russian woman. Yahoo
quote:
Geoffrey S. Berman, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, William F. Sweeney Jr., the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), and James P. O’Neill, Commissioner of the New York City Police Department (“NYPD”), announced that JEFFREY EPSTEIN was arrested Saturday and charged with sex trafficking of minors and conspiracy to commit sex trafficking of minors. The indictment unsealed today alleges that, between 2002 through 2005, EPSTEIN sexually exploited and abused dozens of underage girls by enticing them to engage in sex acts with him in exchange for money. Epstein allegedly worked with several employees and associates to ensure that he had a steady supply of minor victims to abuse, and paid several of those victims themselves to recruit other underage girls to engage in similar sex acts for money. He committed these offenses in locations including New York, New York, and Palm Beach, Florida. EPSTEIN is expected to be presented in Manhattan federal court this afternoon before U.S. Magistrate Judge Henry B. Pitman. The case is assigned to U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman.
U.S. Attorney Geoffrey S. Berman said: “As alleged, Jeffrey Epstein abused underage girls for years, operating a scheme in which girls he victimized would recruit others for Epstein to exploit and abuse. Epstein exploited girls who were vulnerable to abuse, enticed them with cash payments, and escalated his conduct to include sex acts, often occurring at his residence on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. While the charged conduct is from a number of years ago, the victims – then children and now young women – are no less entitled to their day in court. My Office is proud to stand up for these victims by bringing this indictment.”
FBI Assistant Director William F. Sweeney Jr. said: “We are asking anyone who may have been victimized by Jeffrey Epstein, or anyone who may have information about his alleged criminal behavior, to please call us. The number is 1-800-CALL-FBI. We want to hear from you, regardless of the age you are now, or whatever age you were then, no matter where the incident took place. The bravery it takes to call us might empower others to speak out about the crimes committed against them. It is important to remember there was never, nor will there ever be an excuse for this type of behavior. In the eyes of the FBI, the victims will always come first.”
NYPD Commissioner James P. O’Neill said: “Today’s charges serve as a warning to individuals who continue to prey upon some of our society’s most vulnerable population: we are coming for you. I thank and commend the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District and the FBI for their tireless efforts to ensure child predators are taken off our streets. The NYPD will continue to work with our law enforcement partners to eradicate the trafficking of children in our city and nation and work to bring justice to victims of these heinous crimes.”
If you believe you are a victim of the sexual abuse perpetrated by Jeffrey Epstein, please contact the FBI at 1-800-CALL FBI, and reference this case.
According to the Indictment[1] unsealed today in Manhattan federal court:
From at least 2002 through at least 2005, JEFFREY EPSTEIN enticed and recruited, and caused to be enticed and recruited, dozens of minor girls to visit his mansion in New York, New York (the “New York Residence”), and his estate in Palm Beach, Florida (the “Palm Beach Residence”), to engage in sex acts with him, after which he would give the victims hundreds of dollars in cash. In order to maintain and increase his supply of victims, EPSTEIN also paid certain victims to recruit additional underage girls whom he could similarly abuse. In this way, EPSTEIN created a vast network of underage victims for him to sexually exploit, often on a daily basis, in locations including New York and Palm Beach.
EPSTEIN’s victims were as young as 14 at the time he abused them, and were, for various reasons, often particularly vulnerable to exploitation. Moreover, EPSTEIN knew that many of his victims were under 18, including because, in some instances, victims expressly told him they were underage.
In creating and maintaining this network of minor victims in multiple states to abuse and exploit sexually, EPSTEIN worked with others, including employees and associates who facilitated his conduct by, among other things, contacting victims and scheduling their sexual encounters with EPSTEIN at the New York Residence and at the Palm Beach Residence.
In both New York and Florida, EPSTEIN perpetuated this abuse in similar ways. Victims were initially recruited to provide “massages” to EPSTEIN, which became increasingly sexual in nature and would typically include one or more sex acts. EPSTEIN paid his victims hundreds of dollars in cash for each encounter.
In particular, during encounters at the New York Residence, victims would be taken to a room where they would perform a massage on EPSTEIN, during which EPSTEIN would frequently escalate the nature and scope of physical contact with his victims to include, among other things, sex acts such as groping and direct and indirect contact with the victims’ genitals. In connection with the encounters, EPSTEIN, or one of his employees or associates, typically paid each victim hundreds of dollars in cash. Once minor victims were recruited, EPSTEIN or his employees or associates would contact victims to schedule appointments for “massages.” As a result, many victims were abused by EPSTEIN on multiple subsequent occasions.
To further enable him to abuse underage girls, EPSTEIN asked and enticed certain of his victims to recruit additional minor girls to perform “massages” and similarly engage in sex acts with EPSTEIN. When a victim would recruit another underage girl for EPSTEIN, he paid both the victim-recruiter and the new victim hundreds of dollars in cash. Through these victim-recruiters, EPSTEIN maintained a steady supply of new victims to exploit, and gained access to dozens of additional underage girls to abuse.
What about how JE tried to blackmail Bill Gates about his mistress? Yahoo Gates has confirmed he had an affair with a Russian woman. Yahoo
Posted on 3/4/26 at 11:53 am to Jebadeb
quote:
So what do deniers makee of this? Just feds buying into hysteria
What do you think those charges mean for this conversation, exactly?
Nobody is denying Epstein and Maxwell trafficked girls to Epstein and Maxwell. Their indictments only involve those allegations about Epstein/Maxwell, and not the larger allegations about others.
quote:
What about how JE tried to blackmail Bill Gates about his mistress? Yahoo Gates has confirmed he had an affair with a Russian woman. Yahoo
What does this have to do with allegations of Epstein trafficking minors (or children, even) to third parties?
Was the Russian woman a minor? Is that the allegation?
Posted on 3/4/26 at 11:53 am to Rebel
quote:Yeah, your posting on this is bizarre to say the least. Happy to take an IQ test against you.
Big Scrub, I’ve made no secret about you being one of the dumbest posters to ever grace this site.
quote:I don't think so, it just goes into the extent of her lack of credibility.
I’ve not listened to the podcast, but does it mention Giuffre was pimped out by her boyfriend more so than JE?
I think she was a victim first. But after that she was well compensated call girl. She did it for the drugs not the money.
Posted on 3/4/26 at 11:56 am to Flats
quote:nope
The entire point of this topic is to dismiss and minimize everything Epstein did.
quote:Podcast goes into this in depth. Another bit of lore based on ZERO evidence.
happened to have a thing for hidden cameras.
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:04 pm to Big Scrub TX
It's all the Democrats have.
All of their fake outrage and hoaxes have backfired.
They can't stand on GaY for everyone, DEI, trans, mutilating children, rampant fraud, we love illegals and open borders.
So it's hutting down the government and Epstein
All of their fake outrage and hoaxes have backfired.
They can't stand on GaY for everyone, DEI, trans, mutilating children, rampant fraud, we love illegals and open borders.
So it's hutting down the government and Epstein
This post was edited on 3/4/26 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:07 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
nope
This is one of those topics that people are having issues with acting honestly.
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:19 pm to The Torch
quote:This MAGA board is equally if not more consumed. It's a moral panic, spread to everyone. Based on nothing.
It's all the Democrats have.
All of their fake outrage and hoaxes have backfired.
They can't stand on GaY for everyone, DEI, trans, mutilating children, rampant fraud, we love illegals and open borders.
So it's hutting down the government and Epstein
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:27 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
It's a moral panic, spread to everyone.
If you have such a rational argument why do you keep going for the appeal to ridicule?
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:32 pm to Flats
quote:
the appeal to ridicule?
How is labeling this a moral panic engaging in an appeal to ridicule?
If there is, in fact, no evidence to support the conspiracies, wouldn't "moral panic" perfectly describe the past decade of Epstein CTs?
Posted on 3/4/26 at 12:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If there is, in fact, no evidence to support the conspiracies,
You're only demonstrating that you don't understand the definition of "fact". What is or isn't evidence is not an objective matter; I would expect a lawyer to know that. People are free to reject any evidence they feel like rejecting.
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