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re: EU proposes counter tariffs of 25% on US goods
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:05 pm to TigerFanatic99
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:05 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
Indeed. The EU is a bigger trading group than the US. It's not quite as cut and dry.
quote:
TigerFanatic99
Good. You and the other pussies sit in the back, and let the real men handle this.
1
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:07 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
If we tether, in part, any tariff deal to include VAT then we effectively kill any attempt to move to a consumption tax in lieu of income tax in the US. We would also give any country with such a deal in place the ability to shift VAT revenue to income tax based revenue and unilaterally reduce our tariffs on them.
The difference, as I see it, is the VAT is applied to everything in the production process unlike sales tax. BMW pays VAT on steel, tires, nuts, bolts, chips, etc.
If a vehicle is certified as export the German government credits them the value of the VAT BMW paid to produce it.
Essentially subsidizing the export of BMWs.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:08 pm to The Egg
Oh this would be awesome. We would see more countries leave the EU if they try to move forward with this.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:24 pm to dgnx6
quote:
I mean we can keep thinking EU has always been some good friend.
They haven't.
Yep
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:38 pm to BuckyCheese
My understanding is the VAT in this situation is a VAT on the item just to cross the border into an EU country, this os in addition to any tariffs. An at the counter VAT is added at retail sales in some cases. EU countries can move imported items between themselves provided both countries have an import VAT. That is the initial across the border tax is paid once, and could go to another within EU VAT free if 2nd country has an import VAT policy.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:53 pm to The Egg
Isn't this "Walter Bloomberg" account the one that was pushing the 90 Days hoax this morning?
And the EU was on camera TODAY talking about zero tariffs and working with Trump.
Based on your recent history I'm guessing you are mouth breather who gets his news from r/politics and BlueSky then runs over here to repost and beat his dick.
(Also, that is a literal fricking bot account, you people are retarded)
And the EU was on camera TODAY talking about zero tariffs and working with Trump.
Based on your recent history I'm guessing you are mouth breather who gets his news from r/politics and BlueSky then runs over here to repost and beat his dick.
(Also, that is a literal fricking bot account, you people are retarded)
Posted on 4/7/25 at 3:54 pm to Penrod
quote:
and let the real men handle this.
Populists aren't men.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:01 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
The difference, as I see it, is the VAT is applied to everything in the production process unlike sales tax. BMW pays VAT on steel, tires, nuts, bolts, chips, etc.
If a vehicle is certified as export the German government credits them the value of the VAT BMW paid to produce it.
Essentially subsidizing the export of BMWs.
I am struggling to see how this subsidizes the BMW compared to the US "subsidizing" exports.
Let's consider a BMW built in Dingolfing and a Chevrolet built in Lansing.
The BMW is built and pays VAT on all the raw materials and sub-systems purchased from third parties in building the BMW. When it is sold in Suttgart the German "pays" VAT on all those steps plus VAT for the final price of the car.
When the same buyer in Stuttgart buys a Chevrolet built in Lansing, they pay the VAT for the purchase price, but they do not pay any tax previously paid on raw materials and third-party sub-systems because the US doesn't charge them.
If anything, the current VAT system gives Chevrolet a competitive advantage selling its car in Germany that BMW doesn't have.
Coming the other way Germany "refunds" the VAT paid on raw materials et al, and balances the fact that Chevrolet does not incur those same taxes selling a car in Atlanta they built in Lansing. The Atlanta customer pays the same sales tax for a German or American-built car.
Keep in mind I am just discussing VAT, which I still think is a red herring here.
When I see the new tariff structure based on trade imbalance, I can't help but see an attempt to produce equality in outcome versus equality in opportunity in an odd twist of principle.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:07 pm to BHTiger
quote:That's a uniform tax applied to all goods, regardless of country of origin. If you buy a product in Germany you pay exactly the same rate whether the product was made in Cleveland or Frankfurt. It's just their version of a sales tax.
Oh then they add a 20% VAT tax
Grok: The Value-Added Tax (VAT) in the European Union (EU) is not inherently "higher" for American imports compared to goods from other origins, including those produced within the EU. VAT is a consumption tax applied to the sale of goods and services within the EU, and its rates are determined by each EU member state based on the type of goods or services, not their country of origin. This means that American imports are subject to the same VAT rates as EU-produced goods or imports from any other non-EU country when they enter the EU market.
Here’s how it works: When goods are imported into the EU from the United States (or any non-EU country), VAT is applied at the point of entry, typically based on the customs value of the goods (which includes the cost of the goods, shipping, insurance, and any applicable customs duties). The standard VAT rate varies by EU country—ranging from 17% in Luxembourg to 27% in Hungary as of 2025, with an EU average of about 21.8%—and must be at least 15% per EU regulations. This rate is the same one applied to domestic EU goods sold to consumers, ensuring that American imports are not singled out for a higher VAT.
One key point to consider is that VAT is applied uniformly to all goods entering the EU market for consumption, regardless of origin. For example, a smartphone imported from the U.S. to Germany would face the same 19% VAT rate as a smartphone made in Germany or imported from China when sold to a German consumer. However, goods exported from the EU to the U.S. are zero-rated for VAT (meaning no VAT is charged on the export), while U.S. goods entering the EU incur VAT. This can create a perception of asymmetry, as the U.S. does not have a federal VAT system—relying instead on state and local sales taxes, which are typically lower (0% to around 10%) and not applied at the point of import. Despite this, the VAT rate itself isn’t higher for American goods; it’s the same rate applied across the board within each EU country.
The confusion often arises from the interaction of VAT with customs duties. American imports may face additional tariffs (e.g., 10% on cars entering the EU, compared to 2.5% for EU cars entering the U.S.), which increase the taxable base for VAT calculation, effectively raising the total tax burden. However, the VAT rate remains consistent—it’s the added duties that can make the overall cost higher, not a discriminatory VAT policy targeting American goods.
In summary, the VAT in the EU is not higher for American imports compared to other goods within the same category sold in the EU. It’s applied at the same standard, reduced, or special rates as determined by each member state, regardless of whether the goods come from the U.S., Asia, or within the EU itself. Any perceived difference stems from the lack of a U.S. VAT equivalent and the additional effect of tariffs, not from the VAT rate being elevated specifically for American products.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 4:53 pm to Obtuse1
I just did some more reading on this and now I see how the rebate to manufacturers works.
The VAT does impact the sales price disproportionately on imports however as the 10% tariff is added before VAT is calculated. As are any shipping costs.
Just imagine the meltdowns if a 19% VAT was proposed here...
The VAT does impact the sales price disproportionately on imports however as the 10% tariff is added before VAT is calculated. As are any shipping costs.
Just imagine the meltdowns if a 19% VAT was proposed here...
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:00 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:Was 27% when I was there. Thankfully, I was able to use VAT exemptions.
Just imagine the meltdowns if a 19% VAT was proposed here..
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:04 pm to northshorebamaman
Yes sir!
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:13 pm to The Egg
You can’t trust Muslim countries
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:16 pm to Jbird
And the Euro was worth $1.30 or so on top of it. Fun times.
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:26 pm to The Egg
God, aren't we sick of this shite already? We protect these motherfrickers and they act like we owe them something.
frick it...frick it all. We need to leave all positions until all theses inferior idiots realize exactly what they are capable of alone.
They respect nor appreciate nothing we did, or do, for them
frick it...frick it all. We need to leave all positions until all theses inferior idiots realize exactly what they are capable of alone.
They respect nor appreciate nothing we did, or do, for them
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:33 pm to Nosevens
quote:
How is it reciprocating tariffs when they already had high tariffs on imports from up that Trump matched?
On average 1 to 3%? I’m not defending any tariffs but that’s the average price to import US goods into the EU.
And our “reciprocal tariffs” aren’t even based on that, it seems to be calculated from trade deficits for some reason
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:47 pm to DavidTheGnome
bullshite, it’s not even close to 1-3%. The ones that have 10-15% come with a VAT which adds significantly
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:48 pm to Ancient Astronaut
Boom!
Posted on 4/7/25 at 5:56 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
How high were they previously?
I know this is purely anecedotal but may be illustrative:
Outside of Disney in Orlando is a huge outlet mall. The europeans that come to Disney bring suitcases to the mall and buy and buy and buy everything... clothing, shoes ... you name it.
If the prices were fair in europe, they would not be doing that. I was amazed to watch the vast numbers of europeans with suitcases walking around the outside mall.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 1:42 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Populists aren't men.
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
I’m not arguing this point with such a renowned Gender-Queer expert.
J/K
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