- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Impressive support for Intelligent Design
Posted on 2/20/26 at 10:54 pm to SallysHuman
Posted on 2/20/26 at 10:54 pm to SallysHuman
quote:Evolution is simply adaption + time. If you can accept adaption, time is the only other constraint. If you believe in 'young earth creationism' that certainly throws a wrench in it. If you don't believe in YEC, and you accept adaption, you've already accepted evolution by extension, even if you object to the word.
Evolution is not compatible with my faith. Adaptation is,
2
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:01 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Evolution is simply adaption + time.
Yes... but... adaptation ? speciation. No evidence directly proves speciation in higher level mammals.
eta.. symbol didn't translate... does not equal was the symbol used in place of ?
This post was edited on 2/20/26 at 11:04 pm
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:03 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:Forgot this part. Your beliefs may or may not be compatible with evolution but evolution is compatible with these beliefs.
I did not slink from the slop... I descended from that which was "fearfully and wonderfully made". So did you.
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:06 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
The fact that the theory of evolution makes no claims about how we got here either way suggests you're wrong on the specific topic of evolution, at minimum.
I really don’t understand. You and I have said this numerous times, but people for some reason are unable, or unwilling, to understand what it means.
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:08 pm to SallysHuman
quote:It's just a plus sign. Evolution is just adaption plus time.
but... adaptation ? speciation. No evidence directly proves speciation in higher level mammals.
eta.. symbol didn't translate... does not equal was the symbol used in place of ?
Speciation isn’t a different process from adaptation. It’s what happens when accumulated adaptations and genetic changes over time lead to reproductive isolation. Same mechanism, longer timeline.
And yes, we do have documented cases of speciation in mammals.
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:11 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:It's just the cognitive dissonance that occurs when you challenge deeply held beliefs. It's a big thing on this board.
I really don’t understand. You and I have said this numerous times, but people for some reason are unable, or unwilling, to understand what it means.
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:35 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
And yes, we do have documented cases of speciation in mammals.
higher level mammals?
Posted on 2/20/26 at 11:37 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
The most persuasive argument against ID for me is that it’s estimated that over 99% of species that have ever existed are extinct and that the fossil record indicates that many did not live in the same time period.
Does the Creator toss out new species every so often? Was there suddenly a bunch of T-rexes introduced out of thin air a hundred million years ago and Elephants and Rattlesnakes at other points? Why did the Creator decide to go so heavy on mammals following the K-T event? Why don’t we ever see herds of new megafauna just randomly show up in different places today? Huge predators that no one has ever seen before appear out of nowhere in Yellowstone and start chasing and killing bison, elk, etc. No one expects these things to happen but shouldn’t we from an ID perspective?
Does the Creator toss out new species every so often? Was there suddenly a bunch of T-rexes introduced out of thin air a hundred million years ago and Elephants and Rattlesnakes at other points? Why did the Creator decide to go so heavy on mammals following the K-T event? Why don’t we ever see herds of new megafauna just randomly show up in different places today? Huge predators that no one has ever seen before appear out of nowhere in Yellowstone and start chasing and killing bison, elk, etc. No one expects these things to happen but shouldn’t we from an ID perspective?
This post was edited on 2/21/26 at 12:52 am
Posted on 2/21/26 at 12:03 am to SallysHuman
quote:There’s no biological category called “higher level mammals.” Do you mean primates? Large mammals? Something else? Speciation has been documented in multiple mammal lineages. If you’re setting a specific threshold, please define it.
higher level mammals?
I’m not saying you’ll do this, but clarity matters in this topic because creationists have invented several non-scientific terms (like micro/macro evolution) in order to move the goalposts mid-discussion. If we define terms up front, it keeps the conversation clean and prevents someone else from sliding things around later.
This post was edited on 2/21/26 at 12:06 am
Posted on 2/21/26 at 12:51 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
The fact that the theory of evolution makes no claims about how we got here either way suggests you're wrong on the specific topic of evolution, at minimum.
That the theory of evolution wishes to play it safe and run from beginnings is not a strength. It ignores the implication that there might be Someone outside this observed order, that manipulates, perturbates, and yes, even deludes observers.
Edited as follows:
WAS: "evolution"
NOW: the theory of evolution
This post was edited on 2/21/26 at 1:19 am
Posted on 2/21/26 at 12:53 am to TexasForever81
quote:Why would it have to be one male and one female mutating in lockstep?
And then imagine it had to be a male and a female mutate the exact same each step of the process to be able to reproduce.
If a mutation appears in one individual and spreads gradually through a breeding population over generations, where is the requirement for simultaneous identical mutations?
Is your model assuming species change in a single generation rather than diverging slowly across thousands of generations?
Posted on 2/21/26 at 1:10 am to AlwysATgr
quote:It's pretty funny you highlighted the word “evolution” in quotes given the point you tried to make. What does that word mean and why did they use it in the name of the theory? Hint: The root is simply “evolve,” which means to develop gradually.
That "evolution" wishes to play it safe and run from beginnings is not a strength.
Not create
Not conjure
Not fabricate
Not manufacture
Not instantly produce
Not poof into existence
Just gradual change across generations.
That’s all the theory is addressing: life developing and diversifying across generations. Not a sudden leap, not a magic event, not a claim about ultimate beginnings. Just biological change over time. Putting it in quotes doesn’t make your point. The word itself already tells you what it means.
This post was edited on 2/21/26 at 1:12 am
Posted on 2/21/26 at 1:27 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
northshorebamaman
Post edited.
Posted on 2/21/26 at 1:36 am to AlwysATgr
quote:Shifting between “evolution” and “the theory of evolution” is an etymological distraction. It doesn’t change the substance of the discussion or address a single point I’ve made. I realize you are likely attempting to attack the word "theory" but the soundness of a theory isn’t altered by title phrasing. If there’s a flaw in the mechanism or the evidence, identify it directly. Playing with terminology doesn’t refute anything.
Post edited.
Posted on 2/21/26 at 2:00 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
Shifting between “evolution” and “the theory of evolution” is an etymological distraction. It doesn’t change the substance of the discussion or address a single point I’ve made. I realize you are likely attempting to attack the word "theory" but the soundness of a theory isn’t altered by title phrasing. If there’s a flaw in the mechanism or the evidence, identify it directly. Playing with terminology doesn’t refute anything.
Generally, none of the above.
It's about the lens through which one observes "biological change" and how that change is understood.
In question form: could beginnings (of whatever sort they might be), affect either observed biological changes or how such changes are understood? Could someone 'outside' the theory affect what one observes 'inside' the theory?
Posted on 2/21/26 at 2:10 am to AlwysATgr
quote:If the suggestion is that someone outside the observed order could manipulate biological processes and even delude observers, that’s a much broader, and separate, epistemological argument. It wouldn't just single out evolution. It would apply equally to physics, chemistry, geology, and every other empirical field.
It's about the lens through which one observes "biological change" and how that change is understood.
In question form: could beginnings (of whatever sort they might be), affect either observed biological changes or how such changes are understood? Could someone 'outside' the theory affect what one observes 'inside' the theory?
The question then becomes: does that claim generate testable predictions that differ from natural mechanisms? If not, it doesn’t function as an alternative explanation because it’s unfalsifiable.
Raising the possibility of external manipulation doesn’t undermine evolutionary biology specifically. It challenges the reliability of empirical observation in general. That’s a different debate entirely. I'm up to have that debate but it needs its own thread.
Posted on 2/21/26 at 3:39 am to northshorebamaman
I read the first and last pages, and this brings back memories of the TOA/Q days.
FWIW, as of today, I believe that Self Aware, Intelligent Energy did indeed knowingly create infinite and Parallel Universes which ultimately react and form in ways which produce self-aware entities. I.e., Energy based Lifeforms. Lifeforms which are relatively aware and capable of Intelligence according to the mass of their complex Energy base. We are able to comprehend, examine and postulate toward knowing and understanding both ourselves and the Source from which we come.
It is no philosophical reach to imagine that God (the Self Aware Energy Reservoir) ceases to be simply Energy, in the same way that our Self Aware Energy Lifeform is. Self-Awareness at some point, becomes Spirit and an 'I Am' Soul instead of just a coincidental and mundane accumulation of Energy Molecules. At that point the Soul becomes open to Spiritual Law, and a "transformation" from bodily to spiritual. "Raised incorruptible" as it were. But only accordingly re one's subjective and personal, free will, educated choice.
God, being driven by Spiritual Law, could not create Humanity toward the ultimate and narcissistic purpose of being worshiped (Lucifer's 'Projection' and accusation, which go It booted from Heaven) so, that is why God's Children are created via a Process which allows both the Spiritual Idea of God, and the idea of No God, to be a plausible choice. If God were to show Itself, all would be forced by the obvious to acknowledge and 'worship' God, as opposed to Lucifer's Idea. And Idea of the which 1/3 of the higher and knowing Self Aware Angels chose to embrace. God allows each and every Lifeform to CHOOSE its reality, as opposed to being coerced. That is the only fair way. Otherwise, Lucifer's gripe holds weight.
Any Human or even 'Alien' Beings from other universes that does not find this whole Self Awareness scenario - regardless the Process of it's existence -as a miraculous, wondrous and exponentially incomprehensible scenario, and lend due 'praise', reverence and 'worship'...can't see the Spiritual 'forest for the trees', from my perspective.
And if such a person don't have children via their own 'creative ability and process', then it is likely that they may not know the Feeling of Love as well. Feeling is the essence of Awareness, and Self Awareness the pinnacle of the Creative (Evolutionary?) Process. The Bible says "sewn in corruption and raised incorruptible". It also says that "the kingdom of Heaven is likened unto a mustard seed (Atom?), beginning as the smallest of all plants and growing into the greatest of trees wherein all manner of birds lodge therein" (I.e. birds being perceiving entities, self-aware by degree relatively to their mass and complexity.
What we KNOW is that Self Awareness/Cognitive Intellect springs from Energy; Energy which in unified in complex forms becomes a Self. WE are proof of that Universal Axiom. The Biblical "I Am", as it were. And given that Einstein's Relativity is in effect for our particular Universal Paradigm, everything that can happen already has. God - being the infinite, intelligent and Self-Aware Energy Reservoir is indeed the Alpha and Omega. And we are Its/His "Children" (derivatives). And as such, Spiritual Children of a Spiritual Being.
Note that Entanglement Theory Physics indicates some form of underlying 'Energy Unity' that defies and nullifies 'Physical' Universal Law. It is highly likely that there is a complex form of infinite Energy unity which is Self Aware, as we are in a limited capacity. That form of Unified Energy would indeed fit the description of God as being infinitely intelligent, powerful, aware and most of all as a Spiritual Being with Feeling...LOVING.
And a Spiritual Universe/Spiritual Being must respect and bow to Spiritual Law. I.e., " In the beginning was The Word, and the The Word was with God and the The Word was God". Truth rules even the infinitely knowing, powerful and loving, Self Aware God.
I could type and bloviate for another 100 paragraphs, likely only serving my own belief confidence. The old Poliboard TLDR axiom comes into effect. But given AI and the "knowledge will increase" 'End Times' prophetic narrative, I think it more important to embrace Faith that God's Son and Humanities' "Firstborn" and Caretaker, will fulfill its assigned duty and get the Children of Love out of Satan's grasp and to the next level. Lord come quickly, as we are about to enter treacherous and painful times. Thank you Jesus.
FWIW, as of today, I believe that Self Aware, Intelligent Energy did indeed knowingly create infinite and Parallel Universes which ultimately react and form in ways which produce self-aware entities. I.e., Energy based Lifeforms. Lifeforms which are relatively aware and capable of Intelligence according to the mass of their complex Energy base. We are able to comprehend, examine and postulate toward knowing and understanding both ourselves and the Source from which we come.
It is no philosophical reach to imagine that God (the Self Aware Energy Reservoir) ceases to be simply Energy, in the same way that our Self Aware Energy Lifeform is. Self-Awareness at some point, becomes Spirit and an 'I Am' Soul instead of just a coincidental and mundane accumulation of Energy Molecules. At that point the Soul becomes open to Spiritual Law, and a "transformation" from bodily to spiritual. "Raised incorruptible" as it were. But only accordingly re one's subjective and personal, free will, educated choice.
God, being driven by Spiritual Law, could not create Humanity toward the ultimate and narcissistic purpose of being worshiped (Lucifer's 'Projection' and accusation, which go It booted from Heaven) so, that is why God's Children are created via a Process which allows both the Spiritual Idea of God, and the idea of No God, to be a plausible choice. If God were to show Itself, all would be forced by the obvious to acknowledge and 'worship' God, as opposed to Lucifer's Idea. And Idea of the which 1/3 of the higher and knowing Self Aware Angels chose to embrace. God allows each and every Lifeform to CHOOSE its reality, as opposed to being coerced. That is the only fair way. Otherwise, Lucifer's gripe holds weight.
Any Human or even 'Alien' Beings from other universes that does not find this whole Self Awareness scenario - regardless the Process of it's existence -as a miraculous, wondrous and exponentially incomprehensible scenario, and lend due 'praise', reverence and 'worship'...can't see the Spiritual 'forest for the trees', from my perspective.
And if such a person don't have children via their own 'creative ability and process', then it is likely that they may not know the Feeling of Love as well. Feeling is the essence of Awareness, and Self Awareness the pinnacle of the Creative (Evolutionary?) Process. The Bible says "sewn in corruption and raised incorruptible". It also says that "the kingdom of Heaven is likened unto a mustard seed (Atom?), beginning as the smallest of all plants and growing into the greatest of trees wherein all manner of birds lodge therein" (I.e. birds being perceiving entities, self-aware by degree relatively to their mass and complexity.
What we KNOW is that Self Awareness/Cognitive Intellect springs from Energy; Energy which in unified in complex forms becomes a Self. WE are proof of that Universal Axiom. The Biblical "I Am", as it were. And given that Einstein's Relativity is in effect for our particular Universal Paradigm, everything that can happen already has. God - being the infinite, intelligent and Self-Aware Energy Reservoir is indeed the Alpha and Omega. And we are Its/His "Children" (derivatives). And as such, Spiritual Children of a Spiritual Being.
Note that Entanglement Theory Physics indicates some form of underlying 'Energy Unity' that defies and nullifies 'Physical' Universal Law. It is highly likely that there is a complex form of infinite Energy unity which is Self Aware, as we are in a limited capacity. That form of Unified Energy would indeed fit the description of God as being infinitely intelligent, powerful, aware and most of all as a Spiritual Being with Feeling...LOVING.
And a Spiritual Universe/Spiritual Being must respect and bow to Spiritual Law. I.e., " In the beginning was The Word, and the The Word was with God and the The Word was God". Truth rules even the infinitely knowing, powerful and loving, Self Aware God.
I could type and bloviate for another 100 paragraphs, likely only serving my own belief confidence. The old Poliboard TLDR axiom comes into effect. But given AI and the "knowledge will increase" 'End Times' prophetic narrative, I think it more important to embrace Faith that God's Son and Humanities' "Firstborn" and Caretaker, will fulfill its assigned duty and get the Children of Love out of Satan's grasp and to the next level. Lord come quickly, as we are about to enter treacherous and painful times. Thank you Jesus.
Posted on 2/21/26 at 4:06 am to Azkiger
quote:
Who are you quoting?
Every atheist ever?
Posted on 2/21/26 at 4:41 am to RCDfan1950
Posted on 2/21/26 at 4:48 am to Azkiger
quote:The singularity from what. Spontaneous creation from nothing?
The big bang starts with the singularity.
This is so elementary...
Page 9 of 16
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News