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re: In case you thought Student Loans was a dead issue...
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:12 pm to Indefatigable
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:12 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Like I said, I get it.
Then why do you keep following up that statement with an explanation that seems like it ignores what I'm saying?
"Kids don't understand, parents don't understand"...I think that's absurd, but fine, then stop the loans. If I'm wrong and the average American has become that stupid, then it's unethical to keep issuing them loans, just like it would be to issue a loan to a mentally retarded person, and it solves the entire problem.
quote:
It depends what the goal is.
The goal is to solve the problem. That solves the problem. It solves the problem of issuing loans to people who don't understand the terms and it solves the problem of them ever having to repay them (since they won't exist).
Surely you realize that fiddling around with the interest rates solves neither problem, right? The interest rates are not why people default.
I don't really care what happens to the loans already out. If you have to, chalk those up to the same government waste that DOGE is finding every day. And just like the rest of it, stop it going forward. What's done is done. Qut adding to the mess and over time we'll recover.
quote:
but its probably time (across the political board and not just this issue) to start considering the possible instead of the ideal as far as solutions go.
Sure. As long as you stop issuing them going forward. It makes no sense at all to forgive them—especially under the rationalization of, "Well, people just don't understand loans anymore"—yet keep right on issuing new loans. If you're saying stop the loans but forgive the ones out, then fine, great, I'm on board.
(I wouldn't concede that out of the gate...I'd try to get something paid back. Offer to cut the loan in half or only pay back the principle or something.)
1
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:17 pm to OU Guy
quote:
You love socialism don’t you. In US you make choices. Choose college you pay. Don’t and you have no college debt so make less but debt free.
Its all about choices vs handing kids money like a good commie would. Nothing mandates college. Nothing.
Staunch, unwavering principles are good and all. But there is a problem that needs solving.
We have spent the last four decades telling children in school that college is their only option. Whose fault is it that they listened? Again, I'm not advocating for loan forgiveness. They DID make the choice. shite, I made the choice. I had TOPS for undergrad, and a scholarship for masters/beyond. I still took out loans because my graduate school path didn't allow for a full time job. I pay my shite. But we're discussing cutting the interest rates in order to get more people to pay their loans instead of throwing in the towel. That is good for everyone. Something being paid back is better than defaults and forgiveness.
This post was edited on 2/26/25 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:17 pm to DiamondDog
At the very least, we have enough data by now to know the expected future earnings of certain degrees, and that should affect the amount you’re able to borrow. You shouldn’t be able to borrow 200k for a communications degree, the same way you can’t get a $750,000 mortgage when you make 50k
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:22 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
I think that's absurd,
Like I said to the OU poster, the US government and its education system has spent the last half century telling children that college is their only option to make a life for themselves. Way, way, way too many listened.
You're also forgetting that the average US kid learns basically nothing useful about life as an adult in elementary or high school. We're failing as a society in that regard, and have been for a long time.
quote:
then it's unethical to keep issuing them loans
Couldn't agree more, but we also have to stop telling them that taking out those loans (and going to a 4 year university) is the defining factor of their future financial situation.
quote:
The goal is to solve the problem. That solves the problem. It solves the problem of issuing loans to people who don't understand the terms and it solves the problem of them ever having to repay them (since they won't exist).
Going forward, sure, but that isn't what we are talking about with forgiveness and loan rates on existing loans. It also requires a monumental shift in the public and private education apparatus--because kids are still being steered towards college as the end-all-be-all of life.
quote:
It makes no sense at all to forgive them—especially under the rationalization of, "Well, people just don't understand loans anymore"—yet keep right on issuing new loans. If you're saying stop the loans but forgive the ones out, then fine, great, I'm on board.
Again, I do not support forgiving the loans outside of the public service forgiveness programs that already exist. We started this conversation talking about lowering the interest rates on existing loans in order to increase the chance that some of these outstanding loans actually get paid back. That is what I am in favor of.
You and I are in total agreement going forward and in theory.
This post was edited on 2/26/25 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:45 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
but its ludicrous to expect current college kids to complete pay tuition out of pocket. You aren't paying 20k tuition plus living expenses off a part time waiter gig or being a runner at the local billboard law firm.
Nah.
It's harder than it used to be, sure.
But I went to undergrad from 1988-1992, and the reality is that, yeah, school was cheaper then, but students were also a lot more willing to do things than they are now to make it affordable without loans.
Like go to community college for the first two years to get the core classes out of the way for a lot less.
Like live at home while going to said community college to cut down living expenses. And if you live close enough to the 4 year college, live at home while attending the 4 year as well.
Like choose a school based on doability (proximity/cost) rather than "my first choice."
Like live in a trailer when you did move out for school.
Like alternate semesters, working full time for a semester (while banking money) and going to school a semester (while working part time).
When I was in college it was very common to do all of those things. Now it's very rare. Now college is not about an education for many people, it's about "an experience." It's an extended summer sleepaway camp for adultolescents.
Tuition for the closest state school to me is roughly $6,500 a semester.
That's roughly 11 weeks of working 40 hours a week at $15 an hour. So if I go to school in the fall and work in the spring/summer (ignoring the summer semester nonsense), I have 8 full months I can work. 11 weeks pays my tuition, and I would have another $7,500 left over for books and living expenses. That's $1,875 a month, which is easily done by eating at the school cafeteria on their food plan and living in a trailer with a room mate. When the semester is over, I move back home and start squirreling away next fall's nut.
The community college in my town is a fraction of that tuition, just over $2,500 a semester. Which I could easily cover living at home and working part time.
So two years living at home and working part time to finish core classes, then four years to finish two academic years at the big state school.
Six years and I've paid it all myself.
I knew many people who did things like this when I went to college. People used to joke about being on the "six year plan" or the "eight year plan." That's what they meant.
I happened to live in the town where the big state school was. And there was also a community college in the next town over. Did I take advantage of the lower tuition at the community college to take some core classes? You bet. Did I live at home for three of my four years because I was lucky enough to live where the school was, so I could afford to only have to work part time instead of having to work full time and squirrel money away if I lived at home? Also, you bet.
And probably half of the kids I went to high school with who stayed in town to go to school (which was most of us) did the same or at least similar.
It's not as easy as it was then , but it's still doable if you're willing to do whatever you have to do to make it happen. It's definitely not impossible.
Posted on 2/26/25 at 11:59 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Leave Trump out of this. His pronouns are he/him.
a truly stupid comment even compared to your usual
Posted on 2/27/25 at 12:02 am to DiamondDog
A better solution would be to eliminate the student loan interest tax deduction phase out and make all of the interest tax deductible regardless of income like we do with mortgage interest.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 12:05 am to Indefatigable
quote:
the US government and its education system has spent the last half century telling children that college is their only option to make a life for themselves.
I'm not sure I agree about the impact of that messaging.
Just over 61% of all high school graduates in America enroll in college.
That's a majority, but it's a weak/small majority. Seems like if the messaging was as powerful as you say, it would be bigger.
I'm thinking that you might suffer from a little anecdotal bias on that one. Schools like the ones your kids go to/went to might be all about kids going to college, but rural school systems and inner city school systems aren't like that at all. Talk to a teacher who teaches in either one of those settings and I think they'll back me up on that.
Besides, the number one predictor of whether a child will go to college is whether his/her parents went to college, and it's not close. Almost 80% correlation.
The message is coming from the parents, not just the schools. The parents are clearly the main perpetrators of that messaging.
Even if I did agree with your premise, I still don't think it absolves parents or students of responsibility. It seems like a very strange thing to me to say, "Johnny and Janey are mature and ready to move away from home, get up on time, go to class on time, make all new friends, study challenging academic material at a top institution of higher learning all while not causing a pregnancy or becoming addicted to drugs or alcohol, and they are ready to make choices about their field of study that will impact the direction of their lives from here on out, but they can't understand that if they borrow money they have to pay it back, and that they have choices other than just going to college. They aren't ready for that yet."
O.k., then they aren't mature and sophisticated enough for the rest of it either. If they can't understand the implications of paying a loan back in the future, or the implications of going to college vs not going to college, how can they understand the implications of the major they freely choose all on their own?
I object to the bestowing of complete freedom upon these people, yet simultaneously infantilizing them. It makes no sense.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 12:19 am to DiamondDog
I think we should ABOLISH the entire debt system that is tied in any way to the Federal Reserve!
WHO DO WE OWE?? You might ask yourself?
The FED is a PRIVATE ENTITY backed credit wise by the American Slaves aka Tax Payers.
It was done fraudulently, it was created by the Banking Cartel & Woodrow Wilson goes down as top 1-3 worst presidents ever with that one thing he did in Christmas 2013 when Congress was on break.
The entire “loan system” is paper debt on money that doesn’t even exist & they are RAKING IN THE FREE INTEREST RATES?
Let’s call their Bluff!
Confiscate their assets and wealth & redistribute to the American Taxpayers “pro-rata” as to what we paid into the system over the course of our lives.
This is like the system you’ll be seeing more of, or at least I have, and that’s GESARA & NESARA.
Maybe it’s wishful thinking?
But if they truly start arresting all the crooks, it will lead all the way to the Rothschild, Rockerfellers etc…
And let’s just cancel everyone’s debt and reboot! We have the #’s!
We are in a good spot to possibly be that extreme if DJT really wants to.
And the PEOPLE of the World, especially the USA folks would get behind it big time!
And run those scoundrels out of our pockets forever!!!
WHO DO WE OWE?? You might ask yourself?
The FED is a PRIVATE ENTITY backed credit wise by the American Slaves aka Tax Payers.
It was done fraudulently, it was created by the Banking Cartel & Woodrow Wilson goes down as top 1-3 worst presidents ever with that one thing he did in Christmas 2013 when Congress was on break.
The entire “loan system” is paper debt on money that doesn’t even exist & they are RAKING IN THE FREE INTEREST RATES?
Let’s call their Bluff!
Confiscate their assets and wealth & redistribute to the American Taxpayers “pro-rata” as to what we paid into the system over the course of our lives.
This is like the system you’ll be seeing more of, or at least I have, and that’s GESARA & NESARA.
Maybe it’s wishful thinking?
But if they truly start arresting all the crooks, it will lead all the way to the Rothschild, Rockerfellers etc…
And let’s just cancel everyone’s debt and reboot! We have the #’s!
We are in a good spot to possibly be that extreme if DJT really wants to.
And the PEOPLE of the World, especially the USA folks would get behind it big time!
And run those scoundrels out of our pockets forever!!!
Posted on 2/27/25 at 1:16 am to DiamondDog
Below are the top 50 universities receiving NIH grants each year. My son is about to begin his residency to become a doctor, those colleges charge a fortune. Since they receive so many tax dollars plus the billions they recieve in endowments, they should reduce their cost for tuition.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 1:50 am to DiamondDog
Turnips need to pay. If the money was owed to you would you just forget about the money you lent with a promise to repay?
Posted on 2/27/25 at 2:04 am to DiamondDog
Student loans raised the price of tuition. Don't take out a loan if you can't pay it back. I pay my debts. I don't get to purchase everything that I want. I only purchase what I need. You would think that they taught this stuff in College.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 4:00 am to Westbank111
quote:screw that. I've lived within my means. you just want an easy way out of living irresponsibly.
And let’s just cancel everyone’s debt and reboot! We have the #’s!
Posted on 2/27/25 at 4:22 am to Bourre
quote:
Either the banks or the universities should be responsible for backing student loans, not the taxpayers
But, an 18 year old with an undeclared major is a serious default risk, the taxpayer has to back it to make college accessible.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 6:03 am to Gifman
quote:
Make colleges financially responsible for their own student loans.
This would go a long way towards de-communizing the college faculty!
Posted on 2/27/25 at 6:10 am to DiamondDog
quote:
They need to reform the interest rates to ensure payback of funds.
Yep. Huge problem that must be corrected. Cap thr interest rates and make it retroactive.
Also, make college loans dischargable in bankruptcy.
This post was edited on 2/27/25 at 6:11 am
Posted on 2/27/25 at 7:46 am to Bourre
quote:
The federal government needs to get out of the student loan business. Either the banks or the universities should be responsible for backing student loans, not the taxpayers.
Should be the universities - but IF the money comes from a bank, the University ought to be required to ATTEST to the fact that:
- degree being sought is valuable enough to warrant the expense
- student has been academically vetted to believe he will graduate on time.
- any 'slack' by the student will be reported to bank.
- if student doesn't repay, the university will absorb the unpaid balance.
Too many universities are pushing worthless fields of study onto worthless students who just want to party for 6 years. Then raise tuition once they find out the USTreasury is their sugar daddy.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 7:50 am to Bourre
quote:
The federal government needs to get out of the student loan business. Either the banks or the universities should be responsible for backing student loans, not the taxpayers.
Federal funding should not be available for any private endeavors. If a government body wants to distribute taxpayer dollars it should be at the state level where the residents have a say in the distribution.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 8:26 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
Since they receive so many tax dollars plus the billions they recieve in endowments, they should reduce their cost for tuition.
You know why they won't?
Because we provide/guarantee loans so that they don't have to.
True story. One of my medical practices was in close proximity to Tuskegee University and for whatever reason, we went through a period during which we had a lot of Tuskegee veterinary students as patients.
I remember two of them talking in the waiting area one day about tuition. Six months earlier the government had increased the amount of the maximum student loans they could borrow. So the university raised tuition by that exact proportion.
And I'm sure that was every single school in the country, not just Tuskegee.
That's how it works. That's why these loans are the worst thing possible. That's why the cost of college has risen much faster than the general rate of inflation.
The tuition follows the loans, not the other way around.
And the colleges have so much money they literally have to get creative to spend it all. Check out the increase in administrative staff in colleges since, say, the 1970s.
Go to a college campus and ask how many of the buildings have been built in the last 40 years, and how old the buildings they replaced were. At the school I went to they have torn down just about every building that was older than 45-50 years old and replaced it. The students have a fitness facility now that is nicer than any private facility I have ever seen, almost a quarter million square feet. Has multiple basketball courts (for regular students...the athletes practice elsewhere), hot tubs, a 3 story rock climbing wall, etc., etc. The dorms are nicer than my first apartment once I got a real job. There are busses that pick students up from all around the town and drop them off at the front door of the main building, center campus, and that will take them to grocery stores and other shopping places in the town and pick them up. There is a restaurant on campus that students can use their dining cards at that is nicer than most of the restaurants in town.
All that is great, but none of it is necessary, and that's where all of this student loan money has gone.
Stop.
The.
Loans.
Stop them. All they do is turn colleges into luxury retreat centers for 18-22 year olds to create "an experience" that they pay for for decades to come.
Posted on 2/27/25 at 8:35 am to Longhorn Actual
quote:
Yep. When the government subsidizes the loans, it removes risk from the schools since they know they're getting paid. Guarantees demand, which does what to price? It goes up.
Absolutely, 100%.
If you sold widgets, and everyone thought they needed a widget, and then the government decided they'd hand out loans of an unlimited amount to anyone to pay for these widgets you'd start charging more for the widgets too. It's free money to them at this point. It's a broken system.
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