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Message
re: Iraq's Fallujah falls to Qaeda-linked militants
Posted on 1/6/14 at 12:47 am to Lima Whiskey
Posted on 1/6/14 at 12:47 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Washington has been living in a cool-aid fueled fantasy land for a decade now. There were plenty of people who predicted this
Ok, well unfortunately those who claim they were right with all the conflict in Iraq after Saddam's removal have no clue what Saddam or his demon spawn were capable of had we let them be. It was a tough situation either way which begged to be dealt with after we learned what INACTION did for us on 9/11. So the armchair QBs might be singing a different tune had Saddam lashed out eventually and worked up a dirty bomb, etc...upon what he had already done. I find it highly repugnant to marginalize what we accomplished to the good in Iraq via the sacrifices of our troops to make it happen by pointing out some things that were unfortunate byproducts...in most cases to use politically as a means to attack the other side of the aisle.
quote:
The right to life is our foremost liberty
Yes, it's found in our Declaration of INDEPENDENCE and is only mentioned before "Liberty" to make the phrase flow...Liberty is co-equal in that list and you can read how the forefathers felt about which was most important..."Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither", "Give me liberty or give me death"...they were smart enough to know a life without liberty was a life that wasn't worth living.
This post was edited on 1/6/14 at 12:52 am
1
Posted on 1/6/14 at 12:54 am to Alahunter
It's a good thing we invaded Iraq to make sure AQ didn't get a foothold!
Posted on 1/6/14 at 1:15 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Ok, well unfortunately those who claim they were right with all the conflict in Iraq after Saddam's removal have no clue what Saddam or his demon spawn were capable of had we let them be.
As a superpower we can suffer people like Saddam. We don't need to prove anything to anyone. Saddam was an irritant to manage, and his continued existence served as a bulwark against Iranian ambitions in the region. He also kept a lid on civil conflict in Iraq. Leaving him alone was the right decision.
quote:
Liberty
I don't know many Iraqis who enjoy their new found liberty. For them, their Iraq is dead. Now they can enjoy the humdrum of car bombs and civil strife.
This post was edited on 1/6/14 at 1:17 am
Posted on 1/6/14 at 1:26 am to TejasPete
quote:
Should have left Saddam alone in the first place. He really wasn't any worse than our "allies" the Saudies in how he treated his citizens.
I did three tours in Iraq (2 in Baghdad) and the overwhelming majority of Iraqis I met said they missed Saddam because under Saddam everyone was afraid of him while now everyone was afraid of everyone and at least under Saddam you could walk down the street and go to a cafe and not risk dying.
Lots of fail in this post.
Saudi Arabia is an American ally(why would you put that in quotes, it is a fact the US and the Saudis are allies) does not necessarily mean they are friends or nice people. Hell the most prominent Al Qaeda "franchise" ie the one surrounding Bin Laden was called "The Saudi Group" for a reason. But in terms of governments controlling the Arabian Peninsula it is A ok compared to the potential alternatives. It seems military guys are the ones who take the longest to accept the concept of Realpolitik. Do they train you guys to be idealists?
These Iraqis must have been Baathists or at the very least Sunni Arabs. And most of the violence in post Saddam Iraq? Caused by the Iraqi insurgency (the baathists) and Al Qaeda in Iraq (Sunni Arabs). The Shia (Mahdi Army, Sadr's Militia) have their own violent groups and were never pro US either.
The Kurds on the other hand were major US allies, kept their territory secure, and very pro US. So stop with the everyones especially if you spent your time in just the Sunni Triangle. My uncle's duty in Iraq was in the Kurdish ares and the Green Zone.
And I am pretty sure the security situation during the last 3 years of heavy US presence was preferable to pre-invasion Iraq. No kurds or marsh arabs were being ethnically cleansed.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 1:50 am to Crimson1st
quote:
Well damn Nostradumbass you should have phoned in your perfect foreknowledge to The White House, Congress, and The Pentagon...tool!
Moron.
Plenty of people said don't invade...there was never a reason to go there except we wanted to kick someone's arse.
Any one with a lick a sense (something you clearly lack)has plans of what to do with a country after you bomb it to dust.
Typical gump
Bombs Guns 'Merica!
This post was edited on 1/6/14 at 1:51 am
Posted on 1/6/14 at 1:57 am to Crimson1st
quote:
Ok, well unfortunately those who claim they were right with all the conflict in Iraq after Saddam's removal have no clue what Saddam or his demon spawn were capable of had we let them be.
Who gives a shite. Saddam was ball less. He literally was not a threat to the US IN ANY WAY. But hey...that didn't stop us from sending 4000 plus Americans to die in that shite hole.
quote:
It was a tough situation either way which begged to be dealt with after we learned what INACTION did for us on 9/11
How exactly was the situation tough?
quote:
So the armchair QBs might be singing a different tune had Saddam lashed out eventually and worked up a dirty bomb, etc...upon what he had already done.
So should we be loading up the cargo planes full of troops to North Korea...cause you know, they have an atomic weapon or two and they are far and away a bigger threat to us then Iraq ever was or ever will be.
quote:
I find it highly repugnant to marginalize what we accomplished to the good in Iraq via the sacrifices of our troops to make it happen by pointing out some things that were unfortunate byproducts...in most cases to use politically as a means to attack the other side of the aisle.
Idiot. I find it highly repugnant that we sent Americans to die in a shite hole for no reason other then to assuage one man's ego.
quote:
Yes, it's found in our Declaration of INDEPENDENCE and is only mentioned before "Liberty" to make the phrase flow...Liberty is co-equal in that list and you can read how the forefathers felt about which was most important..."Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither", "Give me liberty or give me death"...they were smart enough to know a life without liberty was a life that wasn't worth living.
Here's a thought. If the average Iraqi wanted this so-called liberty so much...then they should have taken it.
You can't give liberty to people. They have to earn it themselves.
Not one American life was worth one grain of sand in that shite hole.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 2:02 am to asurob1
quote:
You can't give liberty to people. They have to earn it themselves.
Above all else, this.
Look at what's happening in South Sudan for example. Free and fair elections don't mean a thing when people define themselves by sect or tribe.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 3:19 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Free and fair elections don't mean a thing when people define themselves by sect or tribe.
the dems wet dream for this country, if they can get 95% of the vote from enough of the tribes to lock up every election
Posted on 1/6/14 at 7:47 am to Libertyabides71
quote:
We won the closest thing to peace Iraq will see in 2008. And Iraq was even making progress on the political benchmarks.
In July 2008, I remember riding back to my CHU with the Egyptian who ran the NTV rental place on COB Speicher. I said, "Just think, man, in a couple of years, all this will be turned back over to the Iraqis." His words of wisdom? "It's gonna be a mess." I
and so did he, because it was true. 
Posted on 1/6/14 at 8:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
In July 2008, I remember riding back to my CHU with the Egyptian who ran the NTV rental place on COB Speicher. I said, "Just think, man, in a couple of years, all this will be turned back over to the Iraqis." His words of wisdom? "It's gonna be a mess." I and so did he, because it was true.
I always wondered what a difference it would have made if we hadn't completely disbanded the Iraqi army and the Baath party after the invasion. Of course some adjustments would have had to have been made. I remember I was 20 years old and even then I thought that was a bad idea.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 8:19 am to Alahunter
We need to build pipelines and refineries, nuclear plants and get our oil. Lock down the Southern border and focus sharply on Islamist sympathizers - covert and open - in the nation dust off our quick-strike military equipment. If Israel ask for something...give it to em'.
And let the rich Saudis and high-minded slacker Europeans know that it's their baby (neighbor)...they better rock it.
And we need to put Col. Allen West at the helm of the military.
All these things will happen; just a matter of whether we do it before the Islamist shut down the ME oil fields with a comprehensive military jihad...or after.
The Jews will hit Iraq this year regardless; that'll somewhat change the dynamic. There is no solution or compromise with the Islamists, just like the Authoritarian Socialists over here. It's either a slow slide to their rule...or they go rogue in the street.
And let the rich Saudis and high-minded slacker Europeans know that it's their baby (neighbor)...they better rock it.
And we need to put Col. Allen West at the helm of the military.
All these things will happen; just a matter of whether we do it before the Islamist shut down the ME oil fields with a comprehensive military jihad...or after.
The Jews will hit Iraq this year regardless; that'll somewhat change the dynamic. There is no solution or compromise with the Islamists, just like the Authoritarian Socialists over here. It's either a slow slide to their rule...or they go rogue in the street.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 8:29 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:I would say that while it wasn't the case at the outset, the final result of the wars in Iraq in Afghanistan has been to create a substantially more war cautious batch of conservative voters than previously existed. While I'm sure liberals greatly enjoy being able to say "I told you so" on this, I would submit that they should be happy.
It's a good thing we invaded Iraq to make sure AQ didn't get a foothold!
Besides, I think any honest person would say that even liberals tend to be far less "anti-intervention" when their guy is doing it. But, I think Iraq and Afghanistan and now, to a lesser extent, the Arab Spring, have blunted that factor too.
The complete lack of support in any quarter of significance for US action in Syria I think is a direct result and thankfully so.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 8:31 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I always wondered what a difference it would have made if we hadn't completely disbanded the Iraqi army and the Baath party after the invasion. Of course some adjustments would have had to have been made. I remember I was 20 years old and even then I thought that was a bad idea.
Yep. It was. And, it was odd because a quick look at our own Army would have told our civilian leaders that while "I was just following orders" is a lame excuse, it is also reality. A good number of those folks in the Iraqi Army would've been just fine performers in the follow on Army.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 7:18 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I always wondered what a difference it would have made if we hadn't completely disbanded the Iraqi army and the Baath party after the invasion. Of course some adjustments would have had to have been made. I remember I was 20 years old and even then I thought that was a bad idea.
It would have been better, whatever that means.
The Bath party was created by two Christians in Syria in order to bridge the sectarian divide. It was decidedly non-sectarian and the Iraqi Army was respected across the country.
Posted on 1/6/14 at 8:38 pm to Lima Whiskey
Speaking of Kurd security, the Kurdish north was on a tourist place to visit list I read recently (citing a lack of violence of the kind seen to the south), so at least 1/3 of the country appears successful.
This post was edited on 1/6/14 at 8:39 pm
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