- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Jesus Was a Refugee Commercial
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:46 pm to Squirrelmeister
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:46 pm to Squirrelmeister
Yes, they died. A spiritual death. Separated from God the father. Can you really know so much about scripture and know nothing about scripture? Scripture tells us the age of Adam when he actually died, so your argument is flawed.
1
Posted on 12/27/24 at 7:30 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:No nitwit. The goalposts are rock solid.
You’re moving the goalposts.
quote:Does Carrier not contend Jesus was "a mythical spirit who never really existed"?
You said Carrier said Christianity arose from nothing or something like that.
Ergo Christianity sprang from Christ, a being who never existed. Therefore Christianity arose from nothing. That is 100% Carrier's contention. He's an idiot contending idiotic things, as idiots do. Any further questions?
quote:Yeah, as stated, that is EXACTLY what he asserts.
Carrier never asserts that Christianity just sprung up out of nothing.
quote:Just as Covid was a continuation of Bat Soup?
It’s a continuation of a very ancient Canaanite polytheistic religion.
Obviously Christianity is a "continuation" of Judaism. FULL STOP
quote:All data points?
All the data points to matter and energy as always existing and that they cannot be created or destroyed.
Really?
Describe presingularity physics, timeframes, and physical laws.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 11:59 pm to yakster
quote:
Yes, they died.
Not the day they ate from the tree they didn’t, as promised by Yahweh.
quote:
A spiritual death. Separated from God the father.
The writers of Genesis chapter 2 meant a literally bodily death. In the “yom” (literal day) you eat of it you shall “mowt ta mut” (surely die a literal bodily death).
Compare Genesis 20:7 which are identical Hebrew words to the ones in Genesis 2:17 and in both they mean a literal death.
Compare to Genesis 5:5 when Adam goes to “mot” (died) after living 900 years. “Mot” and “mut” are different tenses of the same word.
“Mot” is also the name of the Canaanite god of death. So when someone died, they went to the real of Mot which was sheol.
The thing about spiritual death is utter nonsense, but it is the standard apologist response. Nevermind that what is translated as spirit is also translated as “wind” and “breath” depending on context. The author of Genesis 2/3 did not write “spiritual death”… that is completely fabricated malarkey by Christians who won’t admit that Yahweh lied. Also think of this: when someone gave up their spirit… they literally died! Like when Jesus gives up his spirit… that spiritual death meant a literal death.
quote:
Can you really know so much about scripture and know nothing about scripture?
How can people like you so completely void of any real knowledge of the scripture and the original context and ancient history try to claim others don’t know the scripture? Well, you just do it, that’s how.
quote:
Scripture tells us the age of Adam when he actually died, so your argument is flawed.
Scripture does tell us the age Adam lived to, so it actually helps my argument that Yahweh lied because instead of dying the day he ate of the forbidden fruit like Yahweh promised, he lived 900 years.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 12:31 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
No nitwit. The goalposts are rock solid
You are the nitwit.
quote:
Does Carrier not contend Jesus was "a mythical spirit who never really existed"?
Sure
quote:
Ergo Christianity sprang from Christ, a being who never existed.
There’s your flawed logic. Christianity sprang from a sect of Jews banned from the temple in Jerusalem who held to the more ancient first temple beliefs. They worshiped the father El Elyon, his consort Asherah (also called Queen of Heaven and the Holy Spirit) and their son (originally called Baal Hadad but later adopted the name Yahweh).
These Christians, like the Essenes of Qumran (Dead Sea scrolls community) believed in a lot of things that the Pharisees rejected. Things like having a king of Israel (return of the messiah - the anointed king representing Yahweh in human flesh), and a belief in Yahweh coming to destroy the wicked in a final judgement and create a new heaven and new earth.
Neither Carrier or I allege Christianity sprang from nothing. There were Jewish sects that were creating Christianity little by little and when the Hellenistic personal savior cults took off around the time of Paul, all the stuff that they had been anticipating and promoting and prophesying about - someone took it to the next step claiming all the stuff they were waiting for to happen it heaven… just happened! Ok let’s go spread the good news! Yahweh became incarnate and was killed and resurrected. He was the first fruit of the resurrection, and so we have to get ready because very soon we will get new bodies and a new heaven and earth will be built, most probably before any of us even taste death!
quote:
Therefore Christianity arose from nothing. That is 100% Carrier's contention
No, it’s not, as I just explained. You should read his book so you don’t sound so stupid when you are making counter arguments.
quote:
Obviously Christianity is a "continuation" of Judaism. FULL STOP
Let me ‘splain something to you, dummy. We can trace just about all religions back to the religion of ancient Sumer. Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and Canaanite religions were offshoots of the “Inanna” cults of Sumer. First temple Israelite religion was an evolved form of Canaanite polytheism. That’s a fact, sorry for your hurt feelings. Around 500-350BCE, the pure polytheism of Israel and Judah was greatly influenced by Persian Zoroastrianism in several ways, but it didn’t produce a single “Jewish” religion. Just like today we have over a thousand Christian sects, there were many “Jewish” sects with beliefs that varied greatly. What we call Judaism today is an offshoot of the Pharisee sect of Judaism. Christianity evolved from the Enochian sect of Judaism that was banned from the temple in Jerusalem.
Why do you think the gospel writers like “Luke” made up all those stories about Jesus educating the Pharisees and then creating a ruckus knocking over the coin exchange tables and then telling the Pharisees they didn’t know the scriptures and then threatening to tear down the temple?
quote:
All data points? Really? Describe presingularity physics, timeframes, and physical laws.
How about you eat a dick.
I’m willing to engage you if you want to learn more about the origins of Christianity but you will need to be open minded, rational, and logical and not be a horses’ arse.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 6:29 am to wfallstiger
quote:
No border was crossed...Aegyptus was a Roman province, as was Judea
They were Jews - Joseph,Mary,Jesus - under Roman occupation
So what? You don't understand the definition of the word "refugee".
A refugee is anyone taking refuge. You can take refuge in your neighbor's house if you think there is an intruder in your house. It has nothing to do with crossing borders.
The fact of the matter is, they had to flee from the place they were living in order to remain safe. They took refuge in Egypt. They were refugees.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:02 am to Squirrelmeister
So in response to the dismantlement of Carrier's inane insistence Jesus never existed as a human, you reply:
Perhaps there are other sophomoric gay slurs you'd like to toss out while you're at it?
Hinduism, Buddhism, North American or Australian Aboriginal Beliefs, Nordic, Greek, and Roman paganism, etc. are not traceable to Sumer. Your contention in that regard is as harebrained and poorly considered as anything of Carrier's, and frankly, Carrier-level is a hard mark to match.
Now, you or your idiot idol, Carrier, could argue that Jesus was exposed to Baalian belief sets, and those somehow influenced his teachings. But of course the assertion would require (a) Jesus actually existing, and (b) some sort of corroboration of the premise in his teachings. But "a" obviously eviscerates your core premise, and for "b" there is of course not a scintilla of evidence.
Again, the religion is called Christianity for a reason. It sprang from the teachings of a Jew known as Christ. It exploded onto the scene virtually immediately after Jesus's ministry in ways totally incompatible with Carrier's "from nothing" thesis.
Given the emoji, it's apparent you're blissfully unaware as to the extent Luke and the synoptic gospels undercut your premise of Christianity's origins resting solely with Paul.
quote:What a mature, cogent, and rational response. Thanks.
How about you eat a dick.
Perhaps there are other sophomoric gay slurs you'd like to toss out while you're at it?
quote:Well, let's just start with the obvious.
Let me ‘splain something to you, dummy. We can trace just about all religions back to the religion of ancient Sumer.
Hinduism, Buddhism, North American or Australian Aboriginal Beliefs, Nordic, Greek, and Roman paganism, etc. are not traceable to Sumer. Your contention in that regard is as harebrained and poorly considered as anything of Carrier's, and frankly, Carrier-level is a hard mark to match.
quote:Were that true, the religion could be called Baalhadadism or Baalism, and as with any entirely mythical holding, social diffusion of Baalite belief would have typically occurred with measured sequentiality (as it had for several centuries), rather than as the explosive phenomenon which Christianity proved to be.
Ergo Christianity sprang from Christ, a being who never existed.
---
There’s your flawed logic. Christianity sprang from a sect of Jews banned from the temple in Jerusalem who held to the more ancient first temple beliefs. They worshiped the father El Elyon, his consort Asherah (also called Queen of Heaven and the Holy Spirit) and their son (originally called Baal Hadad but later adopted the name Yahweh).
Now, you or your idiot idol, Carrier, could argue that Jesus was exposed to Baalian belief sets, and those somehow influenced his teachings. But of course the assertion would require (a) Jesus actually existing, and (b) some sort of corroboration of the premise in his teachings. But "a" obviously eviscerates your core premise, and for "b" there is of course not a scintilla of evidence.
Again, the religion is called Christianity for a reason. It sprang from the teachings of a Jew known as Christ. It exploded onto the scene virtually immediately after Jesus's ministry in ways totally incompatible with Carrier's "from nothing" thesis.
quote:Interesting posit, with a "LOL" emoji attached no less.
Why do you think the gospel writers like “Luke” made up all those stories about Jesus educating the Pharisees and then creating a ruckus knocking over the coin exchange tables and then telling the Pharisees they didn’t know the scriptures and then threatening to tear down the temple?
Given the emoji, it's apparent you're blissfully unaware as to the extent Luke and the synoptic gospels undercut your premise of Christianity's origins resting solely with Paul.
This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 9:06 am
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:22 am to Stinger_1066
quote:
The fact of the matter is, they had to flee from the place they were living in order to remain safe. They took refuge in Egypt. They were refugees.
And that entire story was invented to solve a problem that wasn’t really a problem.
“Matthew” had a focus on Jewish prophesy so the messiah had to come from Bethlehem (Micah 5:2). But “Mark”, the gospel Matthew was using as his source text, had already spread the idea that Jesus was from Nazareth. At least, that’s what Matthew thought.
But Mark never says Jesus was from Nazareth. “Jesus of Nazareth” is the way it’s commonly translated in English from Mark 1 and Mark 16, and that’s exactly how Matthew thought of it. But the Greek text of Mark calls Jesus a Nazarene. A Nazarene was a Jew (like Samson the little sun god) who made a vow to never cut their hair and to abstain from alcohol and be very holy. Matthew didn’t realize that during the alleged time of Jesus and during Paul’s time and even during Mark’s time, the town of Nazareth in Galilee wasn’t even settled. It was settled by the time Matthew wrote his edited version of Mark.
So Matthew had to craft a story. How could Jesus be from Nazareth (his own mistranslation) and also be from Bethlehem? Simple. Make him born in Bethlehem to conform to Micah 5:2 but make him move to Nazareth as a baby so he could be “from” Nazareth.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:35 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
So in response to the dismantlement of Carrier's inane insistence Jesus never existed as a human
I never saw any kind of dismantlement. I don’t know what you are talking about.
quote:
Hinduism, Buddhism, North American or Australian Aboriginal Beliefs, Nordic, Greek, and Roman paganism, etc. are not traceable to Sumer
I’ve highlighted the ones that are traceable back to Sumer. Greek gods, much of their culture, and even their writing system (alphabet) were borrowed from Canaanite culture. Funny how you could be so wrong and make assertions as if you actually knew what you are talking about
Abraham, spelled in English, are transliterated from the Hebrew characters for the English B-R-H-M. There are no vowels in ancient Hebrew so B-R-H-M is all we have.
In Sanskrit, the Hindu god transliterated as Brahma in English, matches the English consonants B-R-H-M. Sanskrit also doesn’t have any vowels, like Hebrew. If you think that is a coincidence then shame on you.
quote:
Were that true, the religion could be called Baalhadadism or Baalism,
Shameless baseless assertions. You should read Carrier’s book and understand his findings and research methodology.
quote:
Again, the religion is called Christianity for a reason. It sprang from the teachings of a Jew known as Christ
I understand that’s what you believe, but you just don’t have a clue about actual reality.
quote:
your premise of Christianity's origins resting solely with Paul.
It didn’t start with Paul, but without Paul taking a radically different approach to James and Peter (his conversion of gentiles and letting them eat pork and keeping their dick skin) Christianity would have died out.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 9:40 am to BasedAF
The notion that Jesus was a refugee is stupid and biblically illiterate.
Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. What did they do after he was born?
They went home.
Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. What did they do after he was born?
They went home.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:00 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:Of course not.
It didn’t start with Paul
You contend, apparently without even realizing it, that Christianity started from nothing.
You hold that Paul invented and/or propagated some sort of Jesus myth.
But unlike any previous myth, this one inexplicably exploded.
Baalism didn't explode in growth. Judaism didn't explode in growth. Nor did anything else in the period. The next such religious explosion occurred a half millennium later ... with another real person on earth, Buddha, at its core. 400-500yrs later came Muhammad with a similar explosion. All originated with a revered personage at the core.
Mythic diffusion produces no such spread.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:03 am to NC_Tigah
I truly miss the Doc Blanchard(sp) postings.
This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 10:04 am
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:04 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
The notion that Jesus was a refugee is stupid and biblically illiterate. Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. What did they do after he was born? They went home.
It depends which gospel you read.
Was Jesus born in Joseph’s house in Bethlehem, and then did they flee to Egypt to find refuge from King Herod, then attempt to return to their house in Bethlehem only to be scared of Archelaus so then they decided to flee to find refuge in Nazareth?
Or did Joseph and Mary live in Nazareth, but then had to travel to Bethlehem for a census despite not having a home or any possessions in Bethlehem, then traveled to Jerusalem for little Jesus’ circumcision and Mary’s purification rituals and animal blood sacrifice, and then return to Nazareth never going to Egypt?
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:14 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You contend, apparently without even realizing it, that Christianity started from nothing.
Stop it. No I don’t. I already explained to you.
quote:
You hold that Paul invented and/or propagated some sort of Jesus myth.
Yes very good, but more so in the propagated part as most of the theology was from the Old Testament and books like Enoch.
quote:
But unlike any previous myth, this one inexplicably exploded
Lots of religions grew rapidly in popularity despite a lack of a real founder on which the religions were based. Cults of Osiris and of Romulus come to mind. And there is a growing argument that Buddha and Mohammed didn’t exist. Oh and of course there is Judaism… just about all religious scholars now admit that Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Moses and all those characters on which the religion was founded never actually existed.
quote:
Baalism didn't explode in growth
Babylonians, Akkadians, Assyrians, and Canaanites including the Israelites all called their volcano/storm deity some form of Ba’al or Bal or Bel. I’d say that religion exploded to become the religion of the entire Fertile Crescent before the Bronze Age collapse. Despite there being no Ba’al in real life.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 10:46 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:Just about all religious scholars?
just about all religious scholars now admit that Abraham, Jacob, Moses and all those characters on which the religion was founded never actually existed.
Your earlier emotional homophobic slurs carried more intellectuality than that statement.
quote:You'd say many things. The problem is no one gives a rat's arse about what you "say" because you've badly discredited yourself by saying what you've already said.
I’d say that religion exploded
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:00 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. What did they do after he was born?
They went home.
You are so fricking ignorant of your own scripture.
Read Matthew 2:13 - 14
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:04 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
It depends which gospel you read.
Which Gospel suggests this...
quote:
Was Jesus born in Joseph’s house in Bethlehem,
That would be none.
Matthew and Luke have the only accounts of Jesus' birth. When Mark and John begin, Jesus is already an adult.
Both Gospels clearly state that Bethlehem was their home. They were living there when Mary became pregnant, traveled to Bethlehem where Jesus was born...not in a house, but in a stable. Then they returned home, according to both accounts.
Yes, the wise men found Jesus in "a house" at some point after he was born. Not one word suggests that it was Joseph's house. Had Joseph owned a house in Bethlehem he would not have been searching for an available room at an inn, and certainly would not have forced his son to be born in a trough in a barn.
And your comment questioning why Joseph would travel to Bethlehem for a census if he didn't own a house there...here's your answer:
"4 So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David."
Remember my comment about being Biblically illiterate? That is fixable, you know.
This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 11:09 am
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:12 am to Stinger_1066
quote:
quote:
Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. What did they do after he was born?
They went home.
You are so fricking ignorant of your own scripture.
Read Matthew 2:13 - 14
And then what did they do in Matthew 2:23, you stupid fricktard? They went home to Bethlehem.
You're so fricking stupid that you can't grasp the fact that returning home after he was born doesn't preclude the fact that they made a trip to Egypt first.
You're not merely Biblically illiterate. You're hopelessly stupid.
This post was edited on 12/28/24 at 11:14 am
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:30 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Just about all religious scholars?
Yes, Abraham and Moses and all the patriarchs are known to be fictive.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:36 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Both Gospels clearly state that Bethlehem was their home. They were living there when Mary became pregnant, traveled to Bethlehem where Jesus was born...not in a house, but in a stable. Then they returned home, according to both accounts.
You’re confused and combing Luke and Matthew. In Matthew, Jesus was born at the house where Joseph and Mary lived in Bethlehem. In Luke, Mary became pregnant in Nazareth and then traveled while pregnant to Bethlehem where they didn’t have a house. In Luke, they never returned home (Bethlehem) but went to Nazareth.
quote:
Yes, the wise men found Jesus in "a house" at some point after he was born. Not one word suggests that it was Joseph's house.
Well that’s where they lived. Maybe I assume because they lived there, they must’ve had a house.
quote:
And your comment questioning why Joseph would travel to Bethlehem for a census if he didn't own a house there...here's your answer: "4 So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David."
Well that’s just stupid. What is a census for? To count people and things. I get what Luke says, but it’s just stupid and there’s no reason to travel for a census. Stay put so they can count you and your possessions.
Posted on 12/28/24 at 11:42 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:The only thing here known, without question, to be fictive are your posts.
Abraham and Moses and all the patriarchs are known to be fictive.
Page 17 of 18
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News