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Message
re: Lord’s Prayer opening may be ‘problematic’, says archbishop
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:12 pm to Smeg
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:12 pm to Smeg
Henry VIII is rolling over in his grave hearing these lunatics actively destroy the Church he created. Any Anglican/Episcopalian worth their faith would abandon this sinking ship for something truly Christian!
1
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
How about our Heavenly Father is good and not abusive
Apparently you have never read the Old Testament. If that’s not abusive, I don’t know what the frick is. God bitch slapped humans right and left.
It’s funny how the better humans get at investing the world, the less we have heard from God. Kind of makes you think maybe there never was a God.
quote:
or that He shows unconditional love to us through the redemption offered through Jesus?
Unconditional love wouldn’t require a condition like having faith in Jesus. There’s no justification for something like eternal damnation for even genuinely evil people, much less those who were mostly just born in a different culture.
quote:
We are rebels deserving of damnation
No, we’re not.
First of all, God hasn’t talked to or appeared to any of us. What we “know” about God is millennia of hearsay originating in very primitive cultures, and just about every theist on the planet believes what they do because they were conditioned to at a young age.
Second, death and suffering predate mankind (and anything we would call sin) by hundreds of millions of years. We don’t suffer because we were expelled from Eden (along with herbivorous T-Rexes) for disobeying God. Man was born into a world full of hardships. We didn’t cause it.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:42 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
Henry VIII is rolling over in his grave hearing these lunatics actively destroy the Church he created
I think you misunderstand the founding of Henry's "Church". Are you under the impression that it was something besides a money grab (as Henry and his protégés emptied the monasteries of value, stole the land for oligarchs, and removed the educational/medical support system for the average Briton)?
Henry actually started a "church" by demanding that his subjects, across the kingdom, swear an oath of recognition for his fraudulent marriage.
This archbishop subordinating the Truth of the Christian message to the forces of the secular world is quite in touch with Henry's example.
Henry may have like this fellow more than Cranmer. He surely would love the flexible religious doctrine and steadfast desire to please the world.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:56 pm to FooManChoo
I agree, Foo. Most Presbyterians are more Reformed theology in their doctrine.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 5:58 pm to Smeg
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:18 pm to Smeg
If you buy what the New Testament is selling, the words of the "Lord's Prayer" are the exact words used by Yeshua bar Yusef himself, when his followers asked him to teach them how to pray.
Bishop, if the words are "problematic" for you, you have a "problem" with Yeshua himself.
Of course, one would expect Yeshua to have understood that a supernatural deity is unlikely to have a human sex or gender, but I suppose he was just using the Aramaic grammatical conventions, since that was the language he was speaking.
Bishop, if the words are "problematic" for you, you have a "problem" with Yeshua himself.
Of course, one would expect Yeshua to have understood that a supernatural deity is unlikely to have a human sex or gender, but I suppose he was just using the Aramaic grammatical conventions, since that was the language he was speaking.
This post was edited on 7/8/23 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:29 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:God punished wickedness after giving ample time to repent and turn away from that wickedness.
Apparently you have never read the Old Testament. If that’s not abusive, I don’t know what the frick is. God bitch slapped humans right and left.
His judgement fell on rebels and His fatherly displeasure on His people, but always with forgiveness when repentance was shown.
quote:The heavens declare the glory of God.
It’s funny how the better humans get at investing the world, the less we have heard from God. Kind of makes you think maybe there never was a God.
Perhaps you need to think about your arbitrary standards a bit.
quote:You don't understand God's glory and man's sinfulness.
Unconditional love wouldn’t require a condition like having faith in Jesus. There’s no justification for something like eternal damnation for even genuinely evil people, much less those who were mostly just born in a different culture.
You think it's too much for God to require that His creatures--whom He created for the purpose of communion, fellowship, and worship with God--trust in Him and His promises to them?
quote:Yes we are. We rebel against God in our disobedience and faithlessness.
No, we’re not.
You are rejecting God's revelation at this very minute while arguing that we aren't rebels. Hubris.
quote:Not true on all fronts.
First of all, God hasn’t talked to or appeared to any of us. What we “know” about God is millennia of hearsay originating in very primitive cultures, and just about every theist on the planet believes what they do because they were conditioned to at a young age.
1. God continues to talk to us through His word in the Scriptures.
2. The Scriptures are testimonies from the breath of God, Himself, who inspired men to write as He carried them along by His Spirit. The cultures had nothing to do with the truth of what was revealed, which is timeless and applies to all generations (otherwise preachers might have a hard time trying to preaching from the Bible to modern audiences).
3. Conditioning has nothing to do with it. I bet you were influenced by acquaintances, friends, and relatives from an early age, and yet you would likely say you "broke free" of those influences and believe what you believe today because you started thinking for yourself. Well that's what most people do. Few people these days can get away with not being exposed to competing viewpoints. And yet, many a militant atheist continues to be saved by Christ by the work of the Spirit working through the Gospel, in spite of "conditioning" to the contrary. I, myself, believe much differently about a lot of things than what I was "conditioned" to believe growing up.
quote:Wrong on all accounts.
Second, death and suffering predate mankind (and anything we would call sin) by hundreds of millions of years. We don’t suffer because we were expelled from Eden (along with herbivorous T-Rexes) for disobeying God. Man was born into a world full of hardships. We didn’t cause it.
Death came into the world through Adam's sin, and the second Adam (Jesus Christ) did what the first Adam couldn't do by obeying the law perfectly and being a representative of life instead of death for mankind.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:39 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
How about our Heavenly Father is good and not abusive, or that He shows unconditional love to us
Here’s your Yahweh:
Numbers 11
quote:
18And say to the people, ‘Consecrate yourselves for tomorrow, and you shall eat meat, for you have wept in the hearing of the LORD, saying, “Who will give us meat to eat? For it was better for us in Egypt.” Therefore the LORD will give you meat, and you shall eat. 19You shall not eat just one day, or two days, or five days, or ten days, or twenty days, 20but a whole month, until it comes out at your nostrils and becomes loathsome to you, because you have rejected the LORD who is among you and have wept before him, saying, “Why did we come out of Egypt?”’”
…..
quote:
31Then a wind from the LORD sprang up, and it brought quail from the sea and let them fall beside the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, around the camp, and about two cubits above the ground. 32And the people rose all that day and all night and all the next day, and gathered the quail. Those who gathered least gathered ten homers. And they spread them out for themselves all around the camp. 33While the meat was yet between their teeth, before it was consumed, the anger of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD struck down the people with a very great plague.
So the magic man in the sky is so good and not abusive that he makes his chosen people wander in the wilderness for 40 years, starves them, and when they complain he dumps dead quail in a 30 mile diameter circular 3 feet thick on their camp, and forced them to eat it (dead rotten quail for a month) until it came out their nostrils (from vomiting). Then to top it off he sent them a plague. Oh thank you great father! You are noble and just! Praise Yahweh!
Posted on 7/8/23 at 6:58 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:It's as if you never read any of the passages you quote from
Here’s your Yahweh:
Yes, the God that delivered the people out of slavery and gave the miraculous food (manna) to each while they were heading to the promised land flowing with milk and honey and vineyards that they didn't even plant and wells that they didn't even dig. They were ungrateful and complained about the lack of meat and other foods that they had as slaves in Egypt so God performed another miracles and gave them quail to eat.
quote:Did you forget how the people whom God saved from 400 years of slavery barely had time to dust the sands of Egypt off their feet before complaining to God rather than being thankful for His deliverance? You think God isn't supposed to punish disobedience, especially with it being in response to His kindness?
So the magic man in the sky is so good and not abusive that he makes his chosen people wander in the wilderness for 40 years, starves them, and when they complain he dumps dead quail in a 30 mile diameter circular 3 feet thick on their camp, and forced them to eat it (dead rotten quail for a month) until it came out their nostrils (from vomiting). Then to top it off he sent them a plague. Oh thank you great father! You are noble and just! Praise Yahweh!
Ungrateful children, indeed.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 7:29 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Of course, one would expect Yeshua to have understood that a supernatural deity is unlikely to have a human sex or gender
Your mental illness grows worse
Posted on 7/8/23 at 7:50 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
God that delivered the people out of slavery
For which there is no historical or archaeological evidence
quote:
miraculous food (manna) to each while they were heading to the promised land flowing with milk and honey and vineyards that they didn't even plant and wells that they didn't even dig.
Gee, a “god” who could have snapped his fingers and made the Egyptians Yahwists, or erased the Egyptians from existence. He could have winked his nose and turned the Sinai peninsula into a lush land full of potential to grow crops (oh wait he hated farming, see Cain’s first sacrifice). He could have turned the Canaanites into worshippers of the “one true god”. Nope, the righteous and just God decided instead to plague and kill Egyptians, force his chosen people to wander for 40 years in a condition that was worse than being slaves to Egyptians, and then force his people to go kill the Canaanites and plunder from their toil and hard work, and not leave any women children or suckling infant alive. Because God loves us all and wants us to be happy!
quote:
God performed another miracles and gave them quail to eat.
He forced them to eat rotten quail for a month until they vomited it out of their nostrils, then killed a bunch of them. If only they had repented!
quote:
You think God isn't supposed to punish disobedience, especially with it being in response to His kindness?
They rejected him because he decreased their happiness and increased their suffering. Yahweh did evil (which he admits he creates) unto his chosen people, Isaiah 45:7. He defiled his people by requiring them to kill and burn their firstborn children, Ezekiel 20:26. Yahweh was a dick and the people were right to reject him. But he’s a jealous god and can’t have his people worshipping other gods, Exodus 20:3-5. Read the Bible and count how many people Yahweh killed. He could have killed Assyrians and Babylonians and Philistines… but his favorite people by far to kill were… his chosen people. He was powerless to kill foreign peoples because their gods were stronger. The Philistines defeated Israel and stole the ark. He couldn’t defeat the Canaanites of the plains because they had iron chariots (Israel only had bronze presumably). He couldn’t defeat the Moabites even when Elisha promised the Israelite coalition they would defeat Moab. Pathetic.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 7:53 pm to Strannix
quote:So, you think God has a dick?
Of course, one would expect Yeshua to have understood that a supernatural deity is unlikely to have a human sex or genderquote:
Your mental illness grows worse
OK, Strannix, whatever you say.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 7:58 pm to Globetrotter747
quote:BWAAAA HA HA ha haaa ha ah
Kind of makes you think maybe there never was a God.
So you want to explain sub-atomic structure, the quark, the conditions of the earth where it is specifically located, the Krebs cycle, mitochondrial organelles. cellular proton pumps, ATP, specialized cells and neurons for vision, reactive oxygen species, the behaviors of light, gravity, and orbital reaction; oceanic patterns, planetary atmosphere, the human biome, homeostasis?
and the millions of layers of complexity involved with all of those here in the sphere of spheres - remaining primitive in contrast.
with millions of layers working toward the infinity that only a creator can be responsible for
This post was edited on 7/8/23 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:20 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
one would expect Yeshua to have understood that a supernatural deity is unlikely to have a human sex or gender
Hank, Jesus’s character was created by Enochian Jews who would have believed the Genesis 6 and Enochian accounts of the sons of god coming down and having sex with mortal women. Also they’d have known that genesis 1 has the gods creating man and women in their images, including penises and vaginas.
The apocalyptic Enochian Jews like the essenes believed El Elyon (god most high) was the father, Asherah (Holy Spirit, lady wisdom, queen of heaven) was the mother, and Yahweh was the son. They were waiting on the messiah - the divine king - to return and kick out the apostates who were second temple priests. The Christians took it up a notch and said the divine king - Yahweh - came down as Jesus from the highest heaven and was sacrificed to demons/rulers/archons. Later Christians changed it and created a fictive historical Jesus on earth.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:20 pm to Smeg
That guy is from the Church of England.
However, I wouldn’t have been surprised sadly if it was a Francis appointed bishop saying it.
However, I wouldn’t have been surprised sadly if it was a Francis appointed bishop saying it.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 9:28 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
So you want to explain sub-atomic structure, the quark, the conditions of the earth where it is specifically located, the Krebs cycle, mitochondrial organelles. cellular proton pumps, ATP, specialized cells and neurons for vision, reactive oxygen species, the behaviors of light, gravity, and orbital reaction; oceanic patterns, planetary atmosphere, the human biome, homeostasis? and the millions of layers of complexity involved with all of those here in the sphere of spheres - remaining primitive in contrast. with millions of layers working toward the infinity that only a creator can be responsible for
No, I don’t think he does. I think he, and his ilk (aggiehank, squirrelmeister, etc), just want to keep on pretending that there won’t be a reckoning. Funny, it’s people like this that make me lean more towards the Calvinistic approach to predestination.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:06 pm to Lima Whiskey
They mustn’t read the Bible.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:23 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
I think he, and his ilk (aggiehank, squirrelmeister, etc), just want to keep on pretending that there won’t be a reckoning.
Think about how much you know God exists, the only God, and that the Bible is the inspired word of that God, and following his words and believing in him is the only way to avoid the reckoning. You are 100% sure of it all.
Realize that some like me are 100% sure that there will be no reckoning, at least not from any deity described in the Bible. You can’t fathom that we are positive that you are wrong. Trust me, it’s not “pretending” as you call it.
Don’t read the Bible and don’t study history or else you’ll wind up like me.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:25 pm to omegaman66
quote:
Sadly the top of the Catholic church now worship the devil. I am Catholic. These priest and cardinals and the false Pope are not. Just like most of the republicans in DC are really Dims.
This is really sad.
This guy gets more than 2x the upvotes than the downvotes just by Bashing the Roman Catholic Church, DESPITE the fact that he's completely wrong about the topic of the thread. Just goes to show how much the folks around here enjoy and relish attacking the Catholic Church EVEN IN THREADS that have NOTHING to do with Roman Catholicism.
THE PROTESTANT sects began the Rebellion against the Church that Jesus Christ founded. This Rebellion CONTINUES, as we see from this article about the Archbishop in the Church of England. The Rebellion continues, as we see from the almost daily Catholic Bashing that happens here. The Rebellion continues as the Protestant sects CONTINUE to split from one another again and again. We now have hundreds of Protestant sects because of this Rebellion.
Omegaman, the heirarchy of the Roman Catholic Church follow the Catechism and do not worship Satan, so, let me clear that up for you.
Have you taken the time to read the whole Catechism? Every Catholic should.
The Church of England was a strong force of Rebellion against the Church that Christ founded. They burned churches and monasteries, they looted them, they put Catholics to death for Treason. OF COURSE it is no surprise that they would continue their Rebellion.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 10:27 pm to DingLeeBerry
quote:
Maybe he should say the same about the title “archbishop” and resign. I’m sure there are some who are/have been affiliated with the Catholic Church who have similar issues with the leaders of that church.
This thread is about an archbishop in the Church of England and has NOTHING to do with the Roman Catholic Church.
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