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Started By
Message
re: 'Member when Putin said he'd use nukes?
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:02 pm to GhostOfFreedom
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:02 pm to GhostOfFreedom
quote:
The only thing that makes me not worry about this scenario is that I believe Russia, Zelensky and team Biden are all on the same team.
Nah.
1
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:28 pm to Kentucker
This should increase the risk of Putin being taken out by his own people!!
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:29 pm to lsu777
quote:Wow!
russia invaded ukraine unprovoked.
Three sides hold blame ... NATO, Ukraine, and Russia.
War is hell. This one was 100% avoidable. Putin stated every way humanly possible that NATO in Ukraine posed an unacceptable threat to Russia. He made his case. He made it well ... for 20 years or more.
Barack Obama ignored Putin's concerns. Obama staged a Soros organized coup in Ukraine to insert a west-friendly government. That in turn restarted Ukraine-to-NATO dialogue. Snap! Putin walked into Crimea in response.
Obama and Ukraine STFU about NATO, and Putin was quiescent. Trump recognized NATO in Ukraine as all risk, no reward. There was no push for NATO in Ukraine, and no trouble from Putin.
Biden and Boris Johnson rekindled NATO dialogue. Ukraine swallowed the fantasy hook, line, and sinker. Putin warned FAAFO. Biden goaded him with leaked Ukraine-to-NATO negotiations. Putin did exactly what he'd warned he'd do.
Putin is like a rattlesnake on a forest trail. Ukraine was hiking down the trail with NATO. They came across the snake. It coiled and rattled, sensing a threat. NATO told the rattler "Calm down! We won't hurt you. Just move aside. We have every right to walk this path." Then nudged Ukraine forward. The snake struck. Ukraine got bitten.
You're blaming the snake.
Meanwhile, you imply those who don't blame the snake are somehow allied with or in love with rattlesnakes, or that we trust them? Obviously that is not the case.
Deal with facts as they lie rather than lying about the facts
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:43 pm to NC_Tigah
Like I said, Putin is full of empty threats.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:44 pm to RetiredSaintsLsuFan
quote:
This should increase the risk of Putin being taken out by his own people!!
I’m sure a figurative line is forming. It’s a dictator’s well-worn tale.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:47 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
NATO in Ukraine posed an unacceptable threat to Russia
The problem is this has never had any bit of truth to it and he was just emasculated by Russia's previous failures as the USSR.
quote:
Obama staged a Soros organized coup in Ukraine to insert a west-friendly government.
Note: Obama staged a coup in Ukraine to oust a government Putin had installed via coup. Putin engaged in the first act of aggression here.
The current government under Zelensky ousted the government installed via US coup, so that threat was gone.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:47 pm to lsu777
quote:
how about get trumps dick out your mouth and look at things objectivly.
LSU Fan - Lake Charles
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:48 pm to GhostOfFreedom
Lol. Some of you are so dumb that it’s hard to grasp.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:49 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You're blaming the snake.
When there’s a snake on the path you want to walk, you don’t turn around and go back home. You either get the snake off the path or kill it.
Snakes don’t own paths.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:53 pm to Wtodd
Quite possibly the most important conflict of our lifetime!
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:55 pm to GhostOfFreedom
quote:
The only thing that makes me not worry about this scenario is that I believe Russia, Zelensky and team Biden are all on the same team, and that is just to extort and drain the US wealth and power.
Plausible. He won’t do it though. This will only be a move to give Ukraine tens of billions of dollars more. But eventually the schite will hit the fan. Ukraine will not be on the winning end. They will be a sacrifice for the United States and Russia. Zelensky sold them out.
This post was edited on 9/21/22 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 9/21/22 at 1:56 pm to Wtodd
I believe Putin over our idiots.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 2:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:That would be false. You're thinking of the "Orange Revolution". That was a Soros aided affair as well.
Note: Obama staged a coup in Ukraine to oust a government Putin had installed via coup.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 2:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:NATO was/is perceived as a threat to Russia by virtually every politician in Moscow's Federal Assembly. That's not a Putin thing. Before Putin, Yeltsin held the same belief.quote:The problem is this has never had any bit of truth to it
Putin stated every way humanly possible that NATO in Ukraine posed an unacceptable threat to Russia.
Putin established NATO as a Russian adversary in 2000 when he asked NATO to incorporate Russia. NATO refused.
NATO is a military alliance. That's worth repeating. NATO is a military alliance. It was formed to oppose Russia and its Warsaw Pact. With no WP in the mix, and yet NATO not allowing Russian membership, Russians are not unreasonable to perceive NATO as a threat.
In WWII, Russia suffered nearly 70 times the casualties the US did --- 27M vs 400K. They'd have lost their country entirely if Germany had been able to launch its attack from Eastern Ukraine instead of Western Poland. Like it or not, Russians do not want a major adversary on their border.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 2:41 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Like it or not, Russians do not want a major adversary on their border.
And yet NATO has bordered Russia since NATO's inception, and significantly so since 2004.
But yea, Russia is super concerned about NATO on its border all of a sudden and definitely does not simply want eastern Ukraine back.
I straight up do not buy that so many of you guys actually believe that Russia is truly threatened by Ukraine such that its actions are justified. Putin just saying things does not make them true. OF COURSE that is what he is saying
What else would he say to justify the invasion? "Yea, Lenin and Khruschev fricked up and had no foresight...we are gonna take Donbas and the Black Sea Coast back now"
The pretense of being threatened by NATO makes no sense. Ukraine was nowhere close to NATO membership, and NATO has already been on his doorstep for decades. They want the land back because its historically and economically lucrative for Russia. The weakness of the West and Russia's cultural ties to those areas made it easy. Just call it what it is....a land grab.
This post was edited on 9/21/22 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 9/21/22 at 2:42 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Putin established NATO as a Russian adversary in 2000 when he asked NATO to incorporate Russia. NATO refused.
This is where we agree. It was a colossal mistake not to embrace the Russians post-USSR.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 3:00 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Like it or not, Russians do not want a major adversary on their border.
If Russia takes Ukraine, they will have more NATO on their border than current.
If they take eastern Ukraine, remaining Ukraine will join NATO. And again, more NATO borders than current.
Soooo...
Posted on 9/21/22 at 3:26 pm to Chimlim
quote:
Wonder how much we're going to give Ukraine now.
We have already "given" as much money to Ukraine as Russia spends a year on their military.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 3:31 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
If Russia takes Ukraine, they will have more NATO on their border than current.
The only thing this invasion has done is open up a new several hundred mile long border with NATO via Finland.
Meanwhile Ukraine was nowhere close to becoming a member before all of this.
Posted on 9/21/22 at 3:32 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
And yet NATO has bordered Russia since NATO's inception
Referring to the Baltics?
That combined border is about 300 miles. The border w/ Ukraine is 4X that.
But, Putin made an excellent case re: Ukraine/Georgia when addressing NATO in the Baltics. He pointed out NATO exercises flying nuke capable bombers 12mi from the Latvian-Russian border.
The US wouldn't tolerate Russian nukes 90 miles from Florida. Obviously NATO Bombers are an offensive weapon. Obviously their presence 12 miles away requires a defensive fighter and anti-aircraft missile scramble. That response is (1) revealing of defenses, and (2) very costly. Extending those responsibilities/exposures 4X or more (in perpetuity) for Russia is untenable. Russia wants a buffer. Russia needs a buffer. That should not be so difficult to comprehend.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. For that reason, Russia damn well does not want German-French forces and their allies encamped along Russia's entire western border.
It's likely that any country which, in the course of history, suffered such catastrophic human and material losses at the hands of western invaders (France/Germany) would share such a belief.
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