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Started By
Message
re: Question for Trump Supporters reg. NYT piece.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:17 am to Turbeauxdog
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:17 am to Turbeauxdog
Guidelines to Visiting Turbeauxdog's La La Land
1) Deflect at all cost.
2) Never take a stance or make positive argument- these will easily be refuted and this will make you sad. Instead focus on unsubstantiated negative arguments.
3) Look toward inner emotions for truth. NEVER ADOPT A FACT-BASED POSITION.
4) Accuse others of possessing your own liabilities (deflect).
5) Rinse/repeat.
1) Deflect at all cost.
2) Never take a stance or make positive argument- these will easily be refuted and this will make you sad. Instead focus on unsubstantiated negative arguments.
3) Look toward inner emotions for truth. NEVER ADOPT A FACT-BASED POSITION.
4) Accuse others of possessing your own liabilities (deflect).
5) Rinse/repeat.
1
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:21 am to thatthang
You're delusional.
Ask a real question, I'll answer.
Ask a real question, I'll answer.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 12:06 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Ask a real question, I'll answer.
Ok, I'll start with a few.
You've called the NYT trash, that it lacks credibility. I'm curious what that means to you. Do you think they simply make up their anonymous sources? Do you think they set out to lie about facts on a large scale manner?
What moderately well-connected and/or well-funded source of news do you think is more factually accurate than NYT with it's reporting? I give the 'well-connected' caveat because for this conversation I'm really only interested in news sources that actually have the resources to break news accurately, not simply analyze the news that's already out there.
What do you think is the most likely situation behind this anonymous resistance Op-ed? Do you think NYT totally fabricated this piece, writing it themselves? Do you think it's authentically from the inside, but they are simply exaggerating with the 'senior administration official' title? What exactly do you find so unbelievable in the piece? Would you be shocked if it turned out to be legitimate? I realize those questions require some speculation, but your answers would be informative. That's why I asked for the 'most likely' explanation.
I'm genuinely interested in your answers to the above. Lots of the pro-Trump crowd is screaming that it's all fake, the NYT is fake, etc, but I haven't really seen much substance in the push back.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 8:02 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Ask a real question, I'll answer.
So in conclusion, and as we both expected, you were incapable of getting below the surface of your debilitating emotions surrounding these issues and elaborating to the slightest degree on your baseless claims. You committed to answering questions, and I gave you some straightforward ones in a civil manner. Yet you were incapable of providing any kind of a response. Faced with the task of analyzing a concept beyond your gut emotions, you became overwhelmed as your emotions clashed with reality. Your world view is akin to a child covering his ears humming while something is said he doesn’t like.
Im not expecting an intelligent response here, I’m sure you’ll just fall back to one of your tendencies we identified above. Nevertheless, now that we can both agree you have long abandoned rational thought, I hope you spend some time on some self introspection and self improvement. Think about the dangers inherent in your tendency to mindlessly repeat things you heard from someone you idealize, and how this has created the false reality and echo chamber that you live your life in. Don’t be a sheep, it’s not too late to learn to think for yourself.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:00 am to NewYorkYankeeFan
quote:
If the above 3 points are true, are you not gravely concerned with the stability and fitness of this president.
I believe that this is a dishonorable official who has no major responsibility. I believe he is a never-trumped who truly wished HRC had been elected.
I believe what he is saying consists of deliberately misinterpreting things he has heard in off-the-cuff remarks and representing them as considered opinions whispered about in clandestine meetings.
I believe there is not a cabal of concerned high-level officials that believe Trump is mentally unstable.
I think there are some in high positions who think of Trump as I do. - I hated him during the primaries because I thought he was destroying the GOP chances of keeping HRC out of the WH. I think many in his admin also hate his persona, as do I, - have been hugely embarrassed by many of his hyperbolic narcissistic bloviating. and have uttered some off-the-cuff "what an idiot" or 'This is insane" remarks which this author has deliberately taken as 'evidence' of the cabinet's distrust of his 'mental state.' I have yelled these same things at the TV set in response to many of Trumps utterances - I hate it - it drives me crazy to see Trump diminish the stateliness of the office.
I do NOT believe there is an active cabal working to thwart Trump's agenda as alleged in the op-ed.
What I do believe is that this is someone who has aspirations to be celebrated as "deep throat" or "john dean" for his own glory. I do not believe that the NYT would not have touched something like this with a 10-ft pole except for their blatant bias in wanting to publicize anything that is detrimental to Trump.
I believe this is yellow journalism at best. I believe there are the flimsiness of excuses that the NYT can put forward in their defense of charges that it is outright smear.
I am a Trump voter - proud now, but a "held my nose" voter for him in Nov 16. Also, I would now stop a bullet to save him from the sedition he is facing.
And yes, I still cringe every time he opens his mouth. Not so much what he says - but how he hyperbolizes it and brags about it and exaggerates it. I wish he was doing the exact things that he is doing, but talk about it more like a statesman.
But then he'd be perfect - and perfection is not in the makeup of human being.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:05 am to thatthang
quote:
I'm genuinely interested in your answers to the above. Lots of the pro-Trump crowd is screaming that it's all fake, the NYT is fake, etc, but I haven't really seen much substance in the push back.
My response to the OP about would apply to your question also.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:07 am to BamaGradinTn
Treason
Substitute it withs sedition. What is happening is grade A number one example of sedition.
quote:
So many people throw this word around, yet have no clue what it means.
Substitute it withs sedition. What is happening is grade A number one example of sedition.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:13 am to Nguyener
quote:
The DC elite have been preaching for at least 2 decades now that you cannot be in federal government without a career in politics and even if you could you would never be able to navigate the bureaucracy enough to make any significant difference. Trump blew that narrative up. Then, once in office, he did not fold under the pressure of the propagandist MSM and globalist. In fact he went toe to toe with them and is winning. He presents a very real and very dangerous threat but it is not to the American people and Republic, it is to the uniparty establishment power.
Love your entire post. I don't recall you, but I will try to take notice - I like your style.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:18 am to thatthang
quote:
Their sky screaming prohibits rational discussion.
Point me to a post from a DEM adherent which attempts to engage in rational discussion.
The OP is one, and I responded in kind.
I yearn for rational posts from DEMs. I just find very few.
help me here.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:26 am to NewYorkYankeeFan
I'm not a Trumpkin, but every administration has anonymous sauces who write articles like that, or leak information.
I don't put any stock in it. They're disgruntled, but it might be for a reason they're not telling us, and the claims they make are designed to fit the most damaging narrative.
Obama had someone claim he was rude and dismissive to female staffers and then would be highly receptive to the same idea if a male staffer pitched it two days later.
W had someone who claimed that W and Rove laughed at Christians and called them suckers.
I don't put any stock in it. They're disgruntled, but it might be for a reason they're not telling us, and the claims they make are designed to fit the most damaging narrative.
Obama had someone claim he was rude and dismissive to female staffers and then would be highly receptive to the same idea if a male staffer pitched it two days later.
W had someone who claimed that W and Rove laughed at Christians and called them suckers.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 10:07 am to NewYorkYankeeFan
1) After the past 2 years.. just how sure can you be about the article being legitimate? If you will remember, just two short weeks ago, Lanny Davis claims had the leftists on here yanking their straw needles to his claims. It ran on every network. It was made up. It was a ploy to get leftists to donate to Cohen via gofundme so Davis could get paid. And CNN has STILL not issued a retraction.
2). You do not know that. It could as well have been written by someone at the same level as Bruce Ohr. Would you consider Bruce Ohr a loyal member of the Trump administration?
3) if they were so concerned... why not come forward? Lay it on the table. I’m sorry, but after 2 years of bullshite day after day after day after day... you want us to believe something now that was written anonymously? 2 weeks after the Lanny Davis fiasco? After all of the other garbage that has been laid out with no basis in fact? Sorry. Won’t fly. Come out and lay out the proof. You worried? Come verify your accusations.
You want to know what an unstable and unfit president looks like? The markets are unsteady, the economy is on edge, and foreign governments push you around. You know. Like Canada.
You wanna know what an unfit president looks like? He tells Americans on camera and directly in his audience’s eyes that manufacturing jobs are gone and never coming back... then the next president brings them back.
An unfit president would be the only president who never reached 3 percent growth and then belittle the next president that reaches 4. Then he tries to take credit for it. That is petty and unfit.
An unfit president sees interest rates hit 20 percent, has hostages languish in Iran, and let’s a gas crisis cripple the nation.
However, both of these unfit presidents are celebrated. Go figure. And they tell us a president who has America roaring along to levels they never imagine is unfit and unstable.
2). You do not know that. It could as well have been written by someone at the same level as Bruce Ohr. Would you consider Bruce Ohr a loyal member of the Trump administration?
3) if they were so concerned... why not come forward? Lay it on the table. I’m sorry, but after 2 years of bullshite day after day after day after day... you want us to believe something now that was written anonymously? 2 weeks after the Lanny Davis fiasco? After all of the other garbage that has been laid out with no basis in fact? Sorry. Won’t fly. Come out and lay out the proof. You worried? Come verify your accusations.
You want to know what an unstable and unfit president looks like? The markets are unsteady, the economy is on edge, and foreign governments push you around. You know. Like Canada.
You wanna know what an unfit president looks like? He tells Americans on camera and directly in his audience’s eyes that manufacturing jobs are gone and never coming back... then the next president brings them back.
An unfit president would be the only president who never reached 3 percent growth and then belittle the next president that reaches 4. Then he tries to take credit for it. That is petty and unfit.
An unfit president sees interest rates hit 20 percent, has hostages languish in Iran, and let’s a gas crisis cripple the nation.
However, both of these unfit presidents are celebrated. Go figure. And they tell us a president who has America roaring along to levels they never imagine is unfit and unstable.
This post was edited on 9/8/18 at 10:08 am
Posted on 9/8/18 at 10:31 am to thatthang
quote:
o in conclusion, and as we both expected, you were incapable of getting below the surface of your debilitating emotions surrounding these issues and elaborating to the slightest degree on your baseless claims. You committed to answering questions, and I gave you some straightforward ones in a civil manner. Yet you were incapable of providing any kind of a response. Faced with the task of analyzing a concept beyond your gut emotions, you became overwhelmed as your emotions clashed with reality. Your world view is akin to a child covering his ears humming while something is said he doesn’t like
So no real question?
Carry on.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 11:10 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
So no real question?
I don’t think you’re this dense, I really don’t. Below (from two posts above) is what i’d be interested to talk about, but thus far you’ve deflected. Can you address this or is that asking too much?
You've called the NYT trash, that it lacks credibility. I'm curious what that means to you. Do you think they simply make up their anonymous sources? Do you think they set out to lie about facts on a large scale manner?
What moderately well-connected and/or well-funded source of news do you think is more factually accurate than NYT with it's reporting? I give the 'well-connected' caveat because for this conversation I'm really only interested in news sources that actually have the resources to break news accurately, not simply analyze the news that's already out there.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 12:09 pm to SDVTiger
To answer your question, yes, I’m gravely concerned about the stability of the president, and always have been.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 12:55 pm to NewYorkYankeeFan
You will be sorely disappointed by the lack of engagement.
The reactionaries are floating a story that the op ed was a term paper some college kid wrote.
Ill go.
Its wretched that congress is so craven that the op ed writer can't expect any traction in his own party.
The degree of complicity to hold on to power is astonishing.
I voted hrc.
Because he is worse.
They both stink.
The reactionaries are floating a story that the op ed was a term paper some college kid wrote.
Ill go.
Its wretched that congress is so craven that the op ed writer can't expect any traction in his own party.
The degree of complicity to hold on to power is astonishing.
I voted hrc.
Because he is worse.
They both stink.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 5:59 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Point me to a post from a DEM adherent which attempts to engage in rational discussion. The OP is one, and I responded in kind. I yearn for rational posts from DEMs. I just find very few. help me here.
Hey man, I’m out enjoying my Saturday but I did read your last couple of posts. Good stuff. Don’t really have time to respond at depth but I appreciate our willingness and courage to explore these issues deeper than the emotions at the surface. I don’t hang around here enough to know who is a legitimate Dem but I feel the same way as you when I try to engage Trump supporters on here. Look above at my convo with turbo. That’s kind of what I usually see: emotion based assertions with a total inability to engage in a conversation deeper than the surface. In my limited time here I’ve found your posts to be a lone bright spot. Wish more people on both sides could discuss this stuff intelligently without feeling their identities were all tied into it.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 7:48 pm to thatthang
quote:
You've called the NYT trash, that it lacks credibility. I'm curious what that means to you. Do you think they simply make up their anonymous sources? Do you think they set out to lie about facts on a large scale manner
Define lie.
I think they decide the story they want to tell, then seek out pieces of questionable evidence so that they can tell that story. They use that questionable evidence to cover their asses and defend themselves. I think they do this on a large scale. I think it's intentional. I think their editors are complicit. I think they are trained to approach journalism this way as early as university. I think advocacy is their goal, not truth. When you combine that goal with a base of staff that is 99 percent insane liberal, you get propaganda not journalism. If objective truth is the goal, I think their reporting is closer to fiction than truth. If you want a perfect example, research the expose that trash gossip rag did on women from trumps past during the primaries. Reporting they stood behind.
quote:
What moderately well-connected and/or well-funded source of news do you think is more factually accurate than NYT with it's reporting? I give the 'well-connected' caveat because for this conversation I'm really only interested in news sources that actually have the resources to break news accurately, not simply analyze the news that's already out there.
There are none. Journalism is dead. Although, I'm not as old as some of the posters here who would say it was never alive. Individual journalists disconnected from larger organizations are probably the only sources of honest news.
This post was edited on 9/8/18 at 7:54 pm
Posted on 9/8/18 at 7:50 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It seems to me that the person writing this is a lot less senior than is being reported. He/she is circulating inside conversations - the first person reporting is probably not accurate. This person wants to keep his/her job.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 7:52 pm to NewYorkYankeeFan
Yet Mattis, Pompeo etc aren’t concerned
Posted on 9/9/18 at 7:52 am to thatthang
quote:
Wish more people on both sides could discuss this stuff intelligently without feeling their identities were
Same here. It’s been a fruitless search. I long for honest debate.
I vent my own fears and opinions here often, but have never refused to engage in honest discussion with anyone willing to debate ideas rather than bumper stickers.
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