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Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:06 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Those linguistic hurdles / gymnastics alone designate that this is clearly not a belief that was held by the apostles,
...And didn't come on the scene until well into the Middle ages
Similar to the anthropomorphic Devil
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:07 pm to BCreed1
Keep trolling with all your BS. This is not a Christian belief.
I’m grateful that you are trolling so hard. Many we research and learn that this is one of many modern “innovations”.
You however will need more prayer. You are deeply intrenched in foolishness. But I have faith. You are loved and will be okay. I think your conversion is close.
I’m grateful that you are trolling so hard. Many we research and learn that this is one of many modern “innovations”.
You however will need more prayer. You are deeply intrenched in foolishness. But I have faith. You are loved and will be okay. I think your conversion is close.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:08 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
I don't understand why it should divide Christians. We all should be ready for what comes next, whatever it is- we are called on to be ready.
It kind of gets into what it means to be Christian, especially in terms of the group/individual dynamic and where punishment comes into play
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:08 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
You're looking for folks to agree with you on this matter,
No I'm not. I am asking what are you saying or what do you mean. It wasn't clear.
quote:
so that's not going to happen. Not from me, at any rate.
Did not ask for you to agree.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It kind of gets into what it means to be Christian, especially in terms of the group/individual dynamic and where punishment comes into play
What do you mean? I might be slow tonight, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. ELIA5? Please?
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:14 pm to SallysHuman
Good question
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:15 pm to Tigerinasia
quote:
Tigerinasia
You stated it was a modern invention. I showed you early fathers speaking of it and referring to it.
Unless you think that Clement of Rome is a modern day guy, then he alone disproves your point. He was born on ca. 35 AD.
Ignatius of Antioch was born in 30 AD
The Didache, 70 AD
The Shepherd of Hermas was written in Rome sometime between 70 and 140 .
That's not a "Modern theory". That is at the foundation of Christianity.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:16 pm to BCreed1
I hate the vitriol this conversation brings up. I think it’s a good conversation. You’d think you were trying to argue about Jesus being the Son of God.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:16 pm to SallysHuman
The very core, original version of Christianity was very individualistic and realtively simple, conceptually (now living that is much harder).
As Christianity moved from a religion for poor and downtrodden individuals into a more established church of more prosperous followers, the group dynamic became a much stronger part. This group dynamic required leadership who created their own rules, etc.
The rapture is a way to celebrate that developed group dynamic, shifting from the individual relationship with God from the original teaching. As these group dynamics developed among different groups comes different ways to relate to God in terms of the point where we go from corporeal to ethereal. The rapture becomes more important.
Then, you get into the obsession with punishment in the Middle Ages, which is also when the concept of the anthropomorphic Devil begins as well. And it kind of goes off the rails. This accelerated further a few centuries later with the crazy American evangelical/revival movements of the 19th century. This is when Christianity became absolutely polluted and the rapture became more important than Jesus's words to come sects
As Christianity moved from a religion for poor and downtrodden individuals into a more established church of more prosperous followers, the group dynamic became a much stronger part. This group dynamic required leadership who created their own rules, etc.
The rapture is a way to celebrate that developed group dynamic, shifting from the individual relationship with God from the original teaching. As these group dynamics developed among different groups comes different ways to relate to God in terms of the point where we go from corporeal to ethereal. The rapture becomes more important.
Then, you get into the obsession with punishment in the Middle Ages, which is also when the concept of the anthropomorphic Devil begins as well. And it kind of goes off the rails. This accelerated further a few centuries later with the crazy American evangelical/revival movements of the 19th century. This is when Christianity became absolutely polluted and the rapture became more important than Jesus's words to come sects
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:17 pm to TexasForever81
quote:
I hate the vitriol this conversation brings up.
Well a conversation about the rapture is one thing
OP is another, because OP is nonsensical anti-Islamic ramblings
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:17 pm to METAL
quote:
The rapture is a Prot thing.
It's a some Protestants thing.
But if they are right, I suspect the Catholics get taken as well...
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:18 pm to TexasForever81
Exactly. I'm not a pre, mid, or post trib guy. I am whenever.
The whole topic is not when one believes, but who is left behind and how that will determine laws and the fate of western nations.
The whole topic is not when one believes, but who is left behind and how that will determine laws and the fate of western nations.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:22 pm to BCreed1
quote:
The whole topic is not when one believes, but who is left behind and how that will determine laws and the fate of western nations.
I see that now. Accept my apology please. Same to SFP
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:22 pm to BCreed1
quote:
Exactly. I'm not a pre, mid, or post trib guy. I am whenever.
I suppose this most closely defines the ‘group’ I would more align with. But with that, I sill say if you believe in the rapture or whatever you want to call it, no western civilization survives.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:22 pm to BCreed1
None of those refer to the Rapture as you define it. You have carefully chose translations that fit your MO. This is how you operate in every thread.
What is interesting is that you don’t convince anyone of your points. You are only looking to create conflict.
That is why I referred to you as troll. Because that is what you are. No hate just truth. Your conversion is approaching.
What is interesting is that you don’t convince anyone of your points. You are only looking to create conflict.
That is why I referred to you as troll. Because that is what you are. No hate just truth. Your conversion is approaching.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:24 pm to TexasForever81
quote:
Accept my apology please.
None needed! It's just a conversation.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The very core, original version of Christianity was very individualistic and realtively simple, conceptually (now living that is much harder).
I disagree... only based on NT words emphasizing coming together in worship and actually laying out church hierarchy and responsibility.
Yes, our churches have become polluted... always have had that problem- again, even in NT writings. The calling out of the seven churches in Rev shows this, much less Pauline epistles to various churches.
I don't know that I believe in Rapture theory... but I very much believe that Christians are called to always be ready. I also don't believe it should be a sincerely dividing issue, just something to discuss and debate.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:25 pm to ValZacs
quote:
I suppose this most closely defines the ‘group’ I would more align with. But with that, I sill say if you believe in the rapture or whatever you want to call it, no western civilization survives.
I do not see how.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 8:25 pm to BCreed1
Every Christian politician will still be here so nothing much will change.
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