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Message
re: Should churches be taxed?
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:29 am to Indefatigable
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:29 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Why shouldn’t they be taxed for the same things other property owners/utility users/businesses are?
Why stop there? Why not create a national religion while we’’re at it?
I’m not so sure people really understand the wall and why it was penned and put into the first amendment in the first place.
Furthermore, if we take that stance, there should be nobody that’s tax exempt, but the truth of the matter is, THIS is what you get with an out of control, enormous and fiscally irresponsible federal government that spends more money than it takes in, and very little do you really benefit from when so much of it goes overseas to prop up special interests within and partnered up with said federal government. People are desperate to feed the beast, when what we really should do is starve the beast and send our tax dollars back to the local level where there can be more accountability and less bureaucracy to weaken how far it goes. Better yet, fund the basic infrastructure and let free enterprise flourish, churches do their job and take care of the needy and get back to some sense of American sanity in this country.
It is this very mindset that our founders tried their best to limit, but to no avail. We found a way to not only ignore their warnings of a monster central government but work around their framework rather than within it to build corruption and power that is uncontrollable. Take a look at our insurmountable National Debt right now, and that’s where taxing everything gets you. It’s like giving your wife another credit card after she maxed out the last 5 you gave her. Insanity.
1
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:30 am to fareplay
Yes
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:44 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Why stop there? Why not create a national religion while we’’re at it?
What?
Nothing about taxing all property owners equally has anything to do with religion.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:45 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Yep - been going on since religion started but now it's so cool to be anti-religion. I bet most "atheists" can't even tell you why they are.
Its not about raising revenue. It’s about people hating religion. Bigotry is new hip thing.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:46 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Nothing about taxing all property owners equally has anything to do with religion.
Either we have freedom of religion or we don’t.
We could raise lots of money by taxing speech, too.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:49 am to the808bass
quote:
Either we have freedom of religion or we don’t. We could raise lots of money by taxing speech, too.
Taxing property ownership in no way infringes on freedom of religion.
Tax exemptions for churches aren’t based in first amendment case law. They are legislative creations.
quote:
We could raise lots of money by taxing speech, too
Newspapers and media organizations pay property taxes.
And it’s not even really about increasing revenues to me. I dislike unequal taxation generally. Either everyone pays or no one should.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 8:52 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:51 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Taxing property ownership in no way infringes on freedom of religion.
Sure. Until you have to enforce collection.
I assume that you would also be in favor of churches becoming political action committees, since that’s afforded to other organizations.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 8:51 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:52 am to fareplay
Oh PLEASE tax them. If you think churches are too politically involved now, then wait until the government removes the one speed bump that has many conservative churches holding back from political involvement. God knows the liberal churches are already up to there necks in politics. 
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 8:53 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:52 am to the808bass
quote:
I assume that you would also be in favor of churches becoming political action committees, since that’s afforded to other organizations.
I don’t care what a church—or any private entity—chooses to do with its money.
quote:
Sure. Until you have to enforce collection.
So collecting property taxes from media organizations infringes on the freedoms of speech and freedom of the press?
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 8:54 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:55 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Tax exemptions for churches aren’t based in first amendment case law.
Well that’s false. I have already quoted the Supreme Court case in this thread.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 8:57 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:55 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Tax exemptions for churches aren’t based in first amendment case law.
Chief Justice Burger might disagree with you.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:56 am to CleverUserName
quote:
I have already quoted the Supreme Court case in this thread.
Can you repost? I’m not reading nine pages at this point.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:57 am to the808bass
quote:Property tax exemption is essentially a government subsidy.
Nothing about taxing all property owners equally has anything to do with religion.quote:
Either we have freedom of religion or we don’t.
So, by excluding religious organizations from property taxes, the government is de facto funding those organizations (at least in part). If funding a religion is not an indicia of an official state "established religion," it is in the neighborhood.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:57 am to Indefatigable
quote:
I don’t care what a church—or any private entity—chooses to do with its money.
Classic indefatigable. “I would be fine with whatever.” Knowing that whatever isn’t happening. But justifying your position from the stance that it should happen.
Churches cannot do whatever they want with their money and maintain their tax exempt status. They are expressly forbidden from being involved in political speech.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to Ghost of Colby
quote:
Progressives usually push for taxing churches because they view churches as a bastion of right-wingers.
The truth is that black churches openly preach politics from the pulpit and are vital in supplying voters during election season.
They don’t own a fleet of church vans to transport people to bingo night.
This guy has spent some time in politics in the south.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to Indefatigable
quote:
What?
Nothing about taxing all property owners equally has anything to do with religion.
When you tax religion, you break the barrier between government and religion as we have long established our government in, and so there is no more wall of separation. You have opened the door to government controlling and influencing religion through taxation and government extortion, as well as create very real political institutions. You can’t tax a religion and then say that they must limit their buildings and meetings to faith based meetings. You’ve now opened the door to churches becoming political jumping off points and that does neither the church, the congregation, or our politics any favors. It’s one thing for the people in the church to share political views, but a whole other thing when preachers begin openly politicking and making the house of God a convention of delegates, discussing politics rather than the things of God.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Can you repost? I’m not reading nine pages at this point.
So you just want to renew and reargue all the points that have already been covered?
Reposting Denied.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to the808bass
quote:
Chief Justice Burger might disagree with you.
That decision says that property taxes cannot be levied on all property holders equally because of the first amendment?
Or was it addressing a challenge to tax exempt status based on the establishment clause?
Those are not the same thing
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 9:02 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Property tax exemption is essentially a government subsidy.
The Supreme Court disagrees with your gay arse.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 8:58 am to CleverUserName
quote:
So you just want to renew and reargue all the points that have already been covered?
No. I wanted you to give me the name of the decision so I could read it.
Walz held that tax exemptions do not violate the establishment clause. It did not hold that churches could not be taxed.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 9:00 am
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