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Message
re: The Town That Privatized Everything
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:12 am to Homesick Tiger
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:12 am to Homesick Tiger
Just curious. How does the current tax rate differ from when it was gov't controlled?
1
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:16 am to Janky
quote:
Just curious. How does the current tax rate differ from when it was gov't controlled?
Judging from the fact that mayoral candidates who espoused the private model have won handily, I would assume about the same rate.
If it's higher, then it seems as if the people of Sandy Springs don't have a problem paying more for better-run government. This is something I have no problem with. It's their town.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:19 am to gatorhata9
quote:
According to a 2008 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $106,240, and the median income for a family was $129,810. The average income for a household was $116,406 and the average income for a family was $169,815. Males had a median income of $60,053 versus $50,030 for females. The per capita income for the city was $70,790. About 3.1% of families and 7.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 8.9% of those under age 18 and 1.9% of those age 65 or over.[26]
LINK
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
This post was edited on 6/26/14 at 9:20 am
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:21 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Judging from the fact that mayoral candidates who espoused the private model have won handily, I would assume about the same rate.
If it's higher, then it seems as if the people of Sandy Springs don't have a problem paying more for better-run government. This is something I have no problem with. It's their town.
Exactly. Most opposition to higher taxation comes not from some deep-seeded moral opposition to taxation itself, but rather from a belief that the money is not being spent wisely and/or is being wasted. When people feel as though they are "getting their money's worth" out of their taxes, they are much more supportive of them. I'm sure that whether the taxes are higher or lower in Sandy Springs that the citizens are happy about them because they see the city spending that money wisely and efficiently.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:22 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
According to a 2008 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $106,240, and the median income for a family was $129,810. The average income for a household was $116,406 and the average income for a family was $169,815. Males had a median income of $60,053 versus $50,030 for females. The per capita income for the city was $70,790. About 3.1% of families and 7.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 8.9% of those under age 18 and 1.9% of those age 65 or over.[26]
LINK
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
My goodness did this town ever hit the socioeconomic lottery!
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:25 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
Sorta like gun control, government healthcare, or welfare in small, homogeneous European countries?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:26 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
This isn't necessarily about cost. It's about competition and accountability.
While it's true that private companies may not see as much value in less wealthy communities because the local government may not be able to "afford" them, the point is that if there is a possible profit to be made, private companies can evolve and adapt in order to make more impoversihed communities a profitable venture.
The beauty part? If the private company attempts to do so, and doesn't do a very good job, the people and local government can just not renew the contract.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 9:53 am to UGATiger26
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:01 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
Interestingly, Sandy Springs has a lot of very mediocre areas that they're trying to eliminate. The main road is dotted with bad apartment complexes and there is a pretty significant minority presence.
Statistics aside, it isn't your normal lily white suburb.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:24 am to tiger 56
Walking down a road with cars going 60 mph. Should have clarified that I wasn't making some major indictment against the city. Just that it's not the most walkable or enjoyable mini-city of Atlanta. It could be better, but I think they have plans for that.
By death wish, I wasn't talking crime. The crime isn't too bad, not the best, but not bad.
By death wish, I wasn't talking crime. The crime isn't too bad, not the best, but not bad.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:26 am to Pettifogger
Agreed. Sandy Springs is not John's Creek.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:27 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
Can you articulate why you would correlate the success of such a city government structure to median income of households?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:44 am to kingbob
quote:
But..but..who will build the ROADS!!!!???
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:48 am to Hog on the Hill
Also, this link seems more correct from my viewpoint of living here.
LINK
I looked at the wiki source and it's source doesn't support that paragraph. Median household income is $65,000 according to that source. And 7.1% of families are below the poverty line.
LINK
I looked at the wiki source and it's source doesn't support that paragraph. Median household income is $65,000 according to that source. And 7.1% of families are below the poverty line.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:50 am to gatorhata9
It also helps that the city only incorporated back in 2005.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:51 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
Can you articulate why you would correlate the success of such a city government structure to median income of households?
Higher median income generally yields higher sales, property, and income tax receipts; the former two being vital to the financing of city services. Essentially, the higher the median income of the population, the more tax money (on average) that municipality will receive per capita. Since the cost of municipal services is directly related to factors such as population size and density, it is not an unreasonable assertion that higher median income would yield higher tax receipts given the same population size and density.
Once a city reaches a certain size (not sure exactly where the line is), the cost of providing additional services becomes basically directly proportional to the population. More people means more necessary services, which means the total cost of those services costs more in total, but less per capita. Smaller population means less expense for services, but more per capita.
Basically, a city with a higher median income should draw more tax money than an identically sized city with lower median income and identical taxation structure. This means that they can do more with the same tax rate or the same with a lower tax rate than "poorer" cities. A distinct advantage.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:54 am to kingbob
But, the point of this seems to be that this structure is costing them less money.
Communities with lower median incomes are still relying on tax money for similar services, no? Therefore, why would they not similarly benefit?
Communities with lower median incomes are still relying on tax money for similar services, no? Therefore, why would they not similarly benefit?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 10:55 am to kingbob
Isn't the Sandy Springs model being used as an example as to how the St. George organizers want to run the new city of St. George?
Posted on 6/26/14 at 11:13 am to Jimbeaux28
Isn't Central mostly private? Only like 2 city employees if I remember right. I believe they are sitting on like a 20 million dollar surplus?
I could be mistaken, but I think I remember reading that in a St. George thread.
I could be mistaken, but I think I remember reading that in a St. George thread.
Posted on 6/26/14 at 11:14 am to Jimbeaux28
quote:
I mean, it's cool that it works for Sandy Springs, but I strongly doubt this experience could translate to the average town.
You highly doubt it because why? You think big govt needs big govt solutions, like all the ones that routinely fail and cause more problems than they solve? ok,
Actually I know all about Sandy Springs, while I didn't actually live in it, I know a number of people who do, and I worked in the area for almost a decade.
[i]Most[/i] of the people who live there like and approve of the way the local govt is handled. That is "MOST", not all. You see the local regulations are left open to a great deal of latitude for interpretation and enforcement.
If you leave your trashcan out for an extra day, you could a 5 dollar fine or a 500 dollar fine, depending. At some point known only to the people whose whim it is to enforce such rules, you could incur thousands of dollars in fines for not mowing your yard properly in just a few weeks.
There is a lot going on below the surface that would shock some of the residents in the area and more that will probably happen before they realize it isn't the shangriala some like to believe it is. But the problems seem to stem largely from the corruption of people in charge and the lack of transparency in how they operate, not so much from the actual system they want to implement.
quote:
Interestingly, Sandy Springs has a lot of very mediocre areas that they're trying to eliminate
Have you ever been to Atlanta before? This isn't some bedroom neighborhood that sprang up over night, unincorportated Sandy Springs was the intersection of Roswell, Dunwoody and the city of Atlanta, it's been a built and overbuilt area for many decades. It's very much a menagerie, you have run down, drug infested apartments of Roswell rd and just a block away some of the most expensive homes in Ga off Dalyrmple. It's pretty clear who is running things and why, they don't want the slum infestation of atlanta to encroach on them more than it already has. It's kind of hard to blame them on that issue.
quote:
Agreed. Sandy Springs is not John's Creek
15 years ago Johns Creek was a bunch of pastures and a couple of large office buildings, at that time the address was Duluth. No, they are really not the same at all.
This post was edited on 6/26/14 at 11:26 am
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