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Started By
Message
re: The Venezuelan adventure was also a clear message to China
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:53 am to Laugh More
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:53 am to Laugh More
quote:
America can defeat and erase any foe anywhere on the planet if we are but willing to exert ourselves.
We get bogged down not because of our capabilities, but because of politicians and the America people’s’ stomach for it. The faster you move on targets and defeat your enemy, the less time the public has to become upset by it.
You guys realize that the segment of the public with the least stomach for this for almost six years has been rightist populists. In other words, 95% of this board.
Y'all get that, right?
When I was on here posting exactly what you just posted above, I got downvoted into oblivion and all I have heard for six years is, "I'm not sending my children to die for some other country who isn't even attacking the US," "that's none of our business and the US has no business anywhere but here, 'Muh 'Merca 'Fust," "why are we spending money to do this, that or the other thing overseas when we are $36 Trillion in debt, the Joo Globalists must have made us do it," "They want to star WWIII for profit,"and on and on and on.
Why even as recently as last week were y'all complete isolationists and now you are all neocon war hawks?
How did that happen?
It's the most fascinating thing I have seen lately.
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 7:54 am
1
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
How are we doing in ending the Ukraine conflict?
This is a dumb comparison and you know it. Or perhaps you’re blind to how stupid it is?
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:57 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
complete isolationists
I don’t think many people here want to be completely isolationist as you intend above.
This is in our backyard, it’s completely different from the Middle East and this has direct affect on us here and the American people (if done correctly admittedly.)
This is also NOT A WAR. It’s pretty clear we wanted quick, decisive action and to get the hell out of there.
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 8:22 am
Posted on 1/6/26 at 7:59 am to Laugh More
quote:
This is a dumb comparison and you know it. Or perhaps you’re blind to how stupid it is?
to Venezuela or Vietnam/Iraq?
Ukraine isn't really comparable to Venezuela, (at this exact moment) sure, but it's more comparable to Vietnam/Iraq than Venezuela (at this exact moment), is. My comment was about showing the absurdity of THAT comparison and the muh fight conclusion of the bad comparison.
Also just to clear this up before people misinterpret my words badly. Iraq and Vietnam were bad decisions, too. Don't try to spin my comments into defending those US FP decisions.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:01 am to SlowFlowPro
How are any of them comparable to nam when we dont have boots on the ground
For fricksake you and your TDS
For fricksake you and your TDS
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:09 am to SlowFlowPro
Correct. It is a re-establishment of the Monroe Doctrine. And I am fully in favor.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:09 am to Geekboy
This was a message to several countries. China, Russia, Mexico, and the EU. This was a reset of sorts to proclaim that the old administration is not in charge and to get in line.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Not our circus, not our monkeys.
How are we doing in ending the Ukraine conflict?
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:18 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Correct. It is a re-establishment of the Monroe Doctrine. And I am fully in favor.
That goes back to my first post
Does China now get to benefit from a similar policy of regional dominance?
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Its a dumb comparison to either actually.
This was the piece you quoted. It is stating that if Trump were president during Vietnam, it wouldn't have been protracted thus leading to the American people's revulsion of it.
Comparing that to Ukraine/Russia is stupid because...we aren't fighting that war in any conventional sense. Its just not the same.
Very true.
Very note true.
This is like going for it on 4th and 10 and running the ball.
Its a bad decision if it doesn't work. Its a brilliant one if it does work because it caught the defense off guard.
So many of these historical decisions are judged good or bad by their outcomes. Those had bad outcomes so were bad decisions. If the same decisions were made, yet we exerted ourselves fully to completing the missions quickly, those same decisions would have been judged differently becuase of the outcomes.
quote:
You think Trump would have allowed Vietnam to last that long?
This was the piece you quoted. It is stating that if Trump were president during Vietnam, it wouldn't have been protracted thus leading to the American people's revulsion of it.
Comparing that to Ukraine/Russia is stupid because...we aren't fighting that war in any conventional sense. Its just not the same.
quote:
Ukraine isn't really comparable to Venezuela, (at this exact moment)
Very true.
quote:
but it's more comparable to Vietnam/Iraq than Venezuela (at this exact moment), is.
Very note true.
quote:
Also just to clear this up before people misinterpret my words badly. Iraq and Vietnam were bad decisions, too. Don't try to spin my comments into defending those US FP decisions.
This is like going for it on 4th and 10 and running the ball.
Its a bad decision if it doesn't work. Its a brilliant one if it does work because it caught the defense off guard. So many of these historical decisions are judged good or bad by their outcomes. Those had bad outcomes so were bad decisions. If the same decisions were made, yet we exerted ourselves fully to completing the missions quickly, those same decisions would have been judged differently becuase of the outcomes.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:26 am to Laugh More
quote:
Very note true.
As of this moment all we've done is kick the ant pile in Venezuela. We have to see how the ants within the ant pile react.
Completely different scenario than a Vietnam/Iraq, where the countries were already destabilized. We may get lucky in Venezuela and this doesn't happen.
quote:
So many of these historical decisions are judged good or bad by their outcomes. Those had bad outcomes so were bad decisions. If the same decisions were made, yet we exerted ourselves fully to completing the missions quickly, those same decisions would have been judged differently becuase of the outcomes.
Well that's why you shouldn't engage in results-oriented judgment, but that's too complex for this board these days.
The underlying theories of both Iraq and Vietnam were faulty and pretty clearly faulty in real time. Emotions and self-desire just got in the way from arrogant pols. Now, THAT applies to Venezuela, but, like I said, we may get lucky.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
You clearly do not recognize that they are already doing this and have been for many years. The only thorny issue remains Taiwan.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:34 am to Laugh More
quote:
I don’t think many people here want to be completely isolationist as you intend above.
Well, no, not any more. That's my point.
But they sure did for six years. Remember, they were saying the same stuff about just sending aid or weapons overseas. It didn't even have to involve troops. No one mentioned how far away the destination had to be before it was off limits. ANYTHING that didn't have to directly do with the US was melted down about.
quote:
This is also NOT A WAR
Neither were any of the actions they whined about for six years. The objection is that the "Globalists" were always "trying to start a war."
This is by far the most potentially provocative action any American POTUS has taken since probably Reagan. Yeah, we got in and out, but in doing what we did, we specifically gave the finger to both China and Russia.
Now, I'm not personally worried about direct retaliation on either of their parts, but on the scale of someone "trying to start a war," this ranks pretty high over the actions this board was crying about for the past six years.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:36 am to Geekboy
Hopefully this is true as the window for the invasion of Taiwan approaches
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
As of this moment all we've done is kick the ant pile in Venezuela. We have to see how the ants within the ant pile react.
Agreed, that’s why this isn’t anywhere close to Ukraine/Vietnam/Iraq at the moment. Those were/are full on war scale events from day one. This is not.
quote:
Well that's why you shouldn't engage in results-oriented judgment, but that's too complex for this board these days.
I agreed to some degree, but context always matters with these types of complex ideas. I am just pointing out the realities of this hindsight thinking.
People who are ascribing Vietnam/Iraq type of ideas/feelings towards this right now need to settle for a bit.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:37 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
You clearly do not recognize that they are already doing this and have been for many years. The only thorny issue remains Taiwan.
Based on this rhetoric they can take over Taiwan. That is the issue.
Hence the question. If the US is promoting multiple hegemons and regional dominance, why does China not now have domain over Taiwan?
Just to be clear, I think the regional/hemispherical argument is nonsense for this reason. But lots of people are promoting it and don't want to think about the impacts worldwide of this policy.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Vietnam were faulty and pretty clearly faulty in real time.
Explain that one, please.
That one was in the context of fighting a proxy war against the USSR, which was the biggest threat not only to the US, but pretty much all life on the planet back then. The Nazis weren't even a close second (although they would have bee if they had developed nuclear weapons).
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:40 am to Laugh More
quote:
I am just pointing out the realities of this hindsight thinking.
I was opposed to Iraq in real time
I wasn't alive for Vietnam, but I would have also opposed it in real time.
Neither had a legitimate/logical justification. Domino Theory was weak and Iraq was basically made up entirely.
quote:
People who are ascribing Vietnam/Iraq type of ideas/feelings towards this right now need to settle for a bit.
Well from the real time analysis, the justifications seem to be as weak as Iraq/Vietnam
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:41 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Explain that one, please.
Domino Theory was kind of bunk and led to a ton of FP decisions that we're still dealing with today.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:42 am to wackatimesthree
Do you think Trump is a globalist and doing this for globalist reasons?
You have to consider WHO is making these decisions and WHY.
Not just because they are on “my side,” but because of who they are and what their goals are.
If a Bush or some other neocon R would have done this, you would have to wonder about the motivation I think.
I do t agree with Trump on everything, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that doing what he did is in the best interest of the US.
From drugs to NOT having 3 major adversaries in our backyard, this seems good for the American people right now. If Venezuela ends up getting a government that is in step with the US and becomes an ally, this will be amazing for them and more importantly, the US.
You have to consider WHO is making these decisions and WHY.
Not just because they are on “my side,” but because of who they are and what their goals are.
If a Bush or some other neocon R would have done this, you would have to wonder about the motivation I think.
I do t agree with Trump on everything, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that doing what he did is in the best interest of the US.
From drugs to NOT having 3 major adversaries in our backyard, this seems good for the American people right now. If Venezuela ends up getting a government that is in step with the US and becomes an ally, this will be amazing for them and more importantly, the US.
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