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Message
1
Posted on 3/29/23 at 8:45 am to tilco
The wokies infiltrated the church and weren't abiding the book of discipline.
Bishops appointed a group to come up with several plans for a way forward.
Three plans were proffered to the conference. The most conservative won.
Bishops refused to enforce the plan because they didn't expect the outcome.
Wokey churches turned the gay shite up to 11.
The Christian's told them they could leave and take their assets and pensions, no charge.
The wokies including the bishops said nah, you Christian's can leave and we're going to charge you for your assets.
Christian's told them their terms were acceptable and started leaving.
Now wokies and bishops are trying to force them to stay.
Run from this shithole denomination as quickly as possible.
Bishops appointed a group to come up with several plans for a way forward.
Three plans were proffered to the conference. The most conservative won.
Bishops refused to enforce the plan because they didn't expect the outcome.
Wokey churches turned the gay shite up to 11.
The Christian's told them they could leave and take their assets and pensions, no charge.
The wokies including the bishops said nah, you Christian's can leave and we're going to charge you for your assets.
Christian's told them their terms were acceptable and started leaving.
Now wokies and bishops are trying to force them to stay.
Run from this shithole denomination as quickly as possible.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 9:03 am to Turbeauxdog
To be honest the BoD had a lot of problems even before the failure to abide by the gay-related stuff.
UMC was probably the most ridiculous denomination because you had pretty faithful congregations operating under the same banner as openly heretical churches that are more or less universalist staging grounds for protests and radicalism.
PCUSA has a bit of that but most have fled to PCA and those that remain pretty much openly reject PCUSA and are only still there due to legal constraints/ties.
UMC was probably the most ridiculous denomination because you had pretty faithful congregations operating under the same banner as openly heretical churches that are more or less universalist staging grounds for protests and radicalism.
PCUSA has a bit of that but most have fled to PCA and those that remain pretty much openly reject PCUSA and are only still there due to legal constraints/ties.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 9:18 am to tilco
So here is the real deal as to why it is big currently.
The same sex marriage and ordaining gay pastors began this. So a few years ago a disaffiliation path was put in the Book of discipline (the rules). This originally was meant as a way for these more liberal churches to seperate from the traditional churches.
Things have flipped. The UMC has now gone a few year without its large general conference, put off by COVID, etc. The disaffiliation rule ends at the end of this year. Churches are worried about what will happen next year at the next General conference. As someone mentioned the leadership from Bishops on up has become more liberal as opposed to the more traditional church below.
Current disaffiliation is a pretty good deal. Churches don't have to pay for the property value of where the church is. Each individual conference makes their own rule. Worry is in future you will have to pay the entire value of the property to leave, if you are even allowed. Many churches can't afford. Example, In the western North Carolina conference churches have paid about 600K for property valued at over 11 million.
Technically you can't disaffiliate unless it deals with the gay/lesbian issues. But many churches are using it as a way to move out of a denomination that they feel is not serving the best interest of the church. So, yes there are many churches that are opposed to gay marriage, etc and they are pretty much joining the global methodist church. HOwever, some are not happy with the way the church is run. Especially, mega churches and some will go basically independent or another way other than global methodist.
So I belong to a large UMC church who is having a disaffiliation vote in May. Our pastor has presented issues like Pastoral appointments, the large amount of money being tied to bureaucracy instead of being used to help people. So they are using this disaffiliation clause to have a vote.
Sorry for the long post, but it is complicated and has been going on for years. The current disaffiliation clause ends after this year, so churches are trying to jump on it, while available and a good deal.
The same sex marriage and ordaining gay pastors began this. So a few years ago a disaffiliation path was put in the Book of discipline (the rules). This originally was meant as a way for these more liberal churches to seperate from the traditional churches.
Things have flipped. The UMC has now gone a few year without its large general conference, put off by COVID, etc. The disaffiliation rule ends at the end of this year. Churches are worried about what will happen next year at the next General conference. As someone mentioned the leadership from Bishops on up has become more liberal as opposed to the more traditional church below.
Current disaffiliation is a pretty good deal. Churches don't have to pay for the property value of where the church is. Each individual conference makes their own rule. Worry is in future you will have to pay the entire value of the property to leave, if you are even allowed. Many churches can't afford. Example, In the western North Carolina conference churches have paid about 600K for property valued at over 11 million.
Technically you can't disaffiliate unless it deals with the gay/lesbian issues. But many churches are using it as a way to move out of a denomination that they feel is not serving the best interest of the church. So, yes there are many churches that are opposed to gay marriage, etc and they are pretty much joining the global methodist church. HOwever, some are not happy with the way the church is run. Especially, mega churches and some will go basically independent or another way other than global methodist.
So I belong to a large UMC church who is having a disaffiliation vote in May. Our pastor has presented issues like Pastoral appointments, the large amount of money being tied to bureaucracy instead of being used to help people. So they are using this disaffiliation clause to have a vote.
Sorry for the long post, but it is complicated and has been going on for years. The current disaffiliation clause ends after this year, so churches are trying to jump on it, while available and a good deal.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 9:29 am to tilco
quote:There is a Trust Clause in the Book of Discipline that the UMC holds the property in trust. So, the Church does not actually own the property. We had an agreement in place that was passed at the 2019 General Conference where the church would be divided and choose between Progressive, Centrist and Traditionalists. The Judicial Council and Counsel of Bishops decided this past Spring that they would pull the rug out from under that plan. They changed it to a disaffiliation plan where if you choose to leave, the Church must pay 2 years' Apportionment (they call it something else now but it's the money you send in to your local jurisdictional conference) and pay the unfunded pension liability. Not sure how they calculate this part. But even that plan ends Dec 31, 2023. I know of larger church that just voted to disaffiliate and their cost to leave is just north of million bucks.
Churches can leave but they have to purchase their real estate from the UMC? Does this apply to traditionalist and progressives?
Posted on 3/29/23 at 9:49 am to tilco
We left our Methodist church of the past 15 years during COVID, as our preacher was more worried about white people are bad and less about word of God.
Before that time the church was growing and had recently had a successful capitol campaign to upgrade and expand.
Numbers are way down now and they have had to let staff go. Picture perfect "Go Woke, Go Broke".
UMC being ran by morons though has not helped. Instead of correcting the issue and returning to what God wrote, they are all in on Gay. As of March, 41 UMC churches left the North Texas conference.
Probably one of the best decisions spiritually I made for our family.
Our new church follows what the bible teaches. God made man and woman, and they are to be together. The gave the spiritual middle finger during COVID to the left and had in-person worship and grew its numbers.
This is the way.
Before that time the church was growing and had recently had a successful capitol campaign to upgrade and expand.
Numbers are way down now and they have had to let staff go. Picture perfect "Go Woke, Go Broke".
UMC being ran by morons though has not helped. Instead of correcting the issue and returning to what God wrote, they are all in on Gay. As of March, 41 UMC churches left the North Texas conference.
Probably one of the best decisions spiritually I made for our family.
Our new church follows what the bible teaches. God made man and woman, and they are to be together. The gave the spiritual middle finger during COVID to the left and had in-person worship and grew its numbers.
This is the way.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:06 am to RAB
quote:
This is true. They actually passed language in the Book of Discipline that was quite clear on the subject. The problem is that it is up to regional bishops to enforce it, and most of them won’t. That means that various local church pastors are still marrying homosexuals, and an increasing number of pastors are even practicing homosexuals themselves.
This is a situation where the polity of the church is a major liability. Local churches are acting all autonomous and trying to vote to disaffiliate, but the regional conference holds all the cards. Some bishops have been generous in this divorce, but those wanting to make it difficult for churches to leave have a great deal of leverage.
So it sounds to me like the liberal/progressives were going to do this anyway no matter what the actual vote was back then. Now they want you to conform or else. Prayer is the only answer.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:15 am to bleedpg
quote:We have been kicking the proverbial can down the road on the human sexuality issues for 50 years. They started electing practicing homosexual Bishop for some time. Before any changes to the Book of Discipline went through changes, some jurisdictions just ignored the Book and did as they pleased. The US jurisdictions likely find the "Traditionalist" a minority. The balance we had was the African jurisdictions were probably more conservative than the American conservatives. There suppose to be a worldwide General Conference but the liberal Judicial Counsel and Bishops decided travel would be too honorees for the African delegations so they postponed until 2025. I am all the while thinking giving them time to do the evil they pulled last spring with tossing out the Indianapolis plan (everyone could go their own without the draconian rules they put us through to disaffiliate). All the human sexuality stuff is far in my rearview mirror that I don't even think about. What they did last Spring I knew I was disaffiliating from the UMC one way or the other,
So it sounds to me like the liberal/progressives were going to do this anyway no matter what the actual vote was back then. Now they want you to conform or else. Prayer is the only answer.
This post was edited on 3/29/23 at 10:24 am
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:20 am to DarthRebel
DarthRebel.
I don't usually call out a fellow believer but your half naked picture makes your words look foolish. Lust is a sin and you are promoting it. Being a married man myself I have to look away from your picture so that I would not have lust in my heart. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you commit adultery. I hope you don't hate me for calling out the obvious.
Take care.
I don't usually call out a fellow believer but your half naked picture makes your words look foolish. Lust is a sin and you are promoting it. Being a married man myself I have to look away from your picture so that I would not have lust in my heart. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you commit adultery. I hope you don't hate me for calling out the obvious.
Take care.
This post was edited on 3/29/23 at 10:49 am
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:31 am to RAB
quote:
This is true. They actually passed language in the Book of Discipline that was quite clear on the subject. The problem is that it is up to regional bishops to enforce it, and most of them won’t. That means that various local church pastors are still marrying homosexuals, and an increasing number of pastors are even practicing homosexuals themselves.
This is the part that makes me laugh... The Book of discipline says gay marriage is against the regulations.... But not enforced
You don't follow the guidelines set forth to disaffiliate.... There are ramifications.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:37 am to SuperOcean
quote:
This is the part that makes me laugh... The Book of discipline says gay marriage is against the regulations.... But not enforced
You don't follow the guidelines set forth to disaffiliate.... There are ramifications.
So the book of discipline is a joke.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:08 am to tilco
Hi Tilco...
I noticed you live in SF, AL. I happen to as well. I know a lot of people in this community, and many whom attend Providence.
For one, let me say that most of the liberal problems within the UMC exist at the other Methodist Church in S.F. That church heavily pushed the white guilt stuff a few years ago. I run a sports medicine clinic in Mobile, and a patient who came through had a mom that was one of the pastors there. (Many will debate the Biblical validity of women being ordained... I won't hijack this thread). But I remember this mom (the assistant pastor) coming in with her daughter. She was always bringing in that White Guilt book from a few years ago... I believe it was called "White Fragility).
My point... Providence seems to be a good church, but still, I would be very leery and watchful as to what the mainline UMC denomination does here with all of this. Too much liberalism and wokism has definitely been creeping in. The other Methodist church in S.F... well, a patient of mine told me that their pastor told them: "No, the Bible doesn't speak against homosexuality... that word is actually more accurately translated into pedophilia." Craziness!
Be prayerful, watchful, and discerning! I pray that you find your way!
I noticed you live in SF, AL. I happen to as well. I know a lot of people in this community, and many whom attend Providence.
For one, let me say that most of the liberal problems within the UMC exist at the other Methodist Church in S.F. That church heavily pushed the white guilt stuff a few years ago. I run a sports medicine clinic in Mobile, and a patient who came through had a mom that was one of the pastors there. (Many will debate the Biblical validity of women being ordained... I won't hijack this thread). But I remember this mom (the assistant pastor) coming in with her daughter. She was always bringing in that White Guilt book from a few years ago... I believe it was called "White Fragility).
My point... Providence seems to be a good church, but still, I would be very leery and watchful as to what the mainline UMC denomination does here with all of this. Too much liberalism and wokism has definitely been creeping in. The other Methodist church in S.F... well, a patient of mine told me that their pastor told them: "No, the Bible doesn't speak against homosexuality... that word is actually more accurately translated into pedophilia." Craziness!
Be prayerful, watchful, and discerning! I pray that you find your way!
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:15 am to bleedpg
quote:
This is the part that makes me laugh... The Book of discipline says gay marriage is against the regulations.... But not enforced
You don't follow the guidelines set forth to disaffiliate.... There are ramifications.
So the book of discipline is a joke.
Correct ... You would think God's word would be higher law than lawyers and accountants. Sitting in meetings with people stating that Rule x page 22 sub sect d states we can't proceed unless 2/3 the vote and the approval of the bishop....and that has to be done by the third Thurs of the second month prior to or else a penalty blah blah blah and I'm thinking ..ok so now the rules apply?
It's a joke indeed
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:46 am to SuperOcean
quote:
Correct ... You would think God's word would be higher law than lawyers and accountants. Sitting in meetings with people stating that Rule x page 22 sub sect d states we can't proceed unless 2/3 the vote and the approval of the bishop....and that has to be done by the third Thurs of the second month prior to or else a penalty blah blah blah and I'm thinking ..ok so now the rules apply?
It's a joke indeed
It's absurd and utter madness.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:54 am to tilco
Look up "Penny Cost"
enough said
enough said
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:57 am to TerryDawg03
quote:
Part of the problem is that at least one conference (North Georgia) put a halt on disaffiliations until the next conference.
This post was edited on 3/29/23 at 11:59 am
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:57 am to bleedpg
quote:
DarthRebel. I don't usually call out a fellow believer but your half naked picture makes your words look foolish. Lust is a sin and you are promoting it. Being a married man myself I have to look away from your picture so that I would not have lust in my heart. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you commit adultery. I hope you don't hate me for calling out the obvious. Take care.
I usually make fun of darth for posting 10 babe threads a day but at least he jerks it to adult women instead of little boys like the gays that are trying to become preachers do
Posted on 3/29/23 at 12:07 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
I usually make fun of darth for posting 10 babe threads a day but at least he jerks it to adult women instead of little boys like the gays that are trying to become preachers do
Lust is a sin just like homosexuality. One sin is not less or greater than the other. Sin is not good and we should all try to turn from it. We are not perfect and will sin but we should try not to. Very simple message.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 12:14 pm to bleedpg
Idk man I think God will let darthrebel live in heavens trailer park while the other guy will go to hell
Posted on 3/29/23 at 12:15 pm to ShoeBang
quote:
It sure is tough to keep a house standing when it is built on sand.
Matthew 7:26 in real time.
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