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Message
re: Weed Vote Today
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:15 pm to Sooner5030
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:15 pm to Sooner5030
quote:
when I was growing up in SE oklahoma (80s-90s) we used to refer to MJ as the county's cash crop. It was kind of a joke but it was everywhere.
There are tons of conservatives/libertarians that have cultivated, traded, and consumed mary jane for a very long time.
And many of us are successful responsible adults.
That's great and all, but doesn't change what I said. We aren't in the 80-90s America anymore.
If we do a pro/cons list, on the con side we have a clear view of where things will go by looking at the West Coasts states. The responsible adults that live productive lives don't need for it to be legal, so that is an argument that doesn't really do much. They have a guy who they pick up their supply from, and don't get into the shady side of things.
We will be opening a pandora's box by doing this, and mature unbiased people need to look at both sides. It's the slippery slope we all know is possible and have seen with plenty of evidence. We can't just have stoners, business people/lobbyist driven by money, and bad political ratings in an election year making this decision.
Can't put this genie back in the bottle. We all saw how there was a long fight against smoking, and now here is something that has it's own physical long term negatives. Same as Alcohol, which we tried to put back in the bottle, and couldn't. Lessons need to be learned/acknowledged here not just let people point to it as "why can they do that?"
I wonder how many pro-legalization people on here would like to have their kids/grandkids start smoking weed in their teens and become dependent on it. Not saying our current system stops it, but at least it does put some barriers on it to try to help.
I'm not saying I support it or not, smoke or not, but its a big move that we don't have long term positive examples to look at. But the opposite.
5
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:16 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
It is a slippery slope to go down whenever you start legalizing drugs. The undesirable results associated with any controversial decision seem to always surface. An example is how went from allowing gay marriage to full fledge teaching school kids to question their gender and the pledge of allegiance to the pride flag.
People that are going to wreck their life with drugs don’t need the federal government to sign off on it, they already do it.
I see no reason to allow your fears to impose restrictions to my agency and liberty as a human being that will do nobody any wrong, and just wants to smoke weed. I find this stance appalling actually.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:19 pm to Dirtyboro
They will muster up a compromise crap that doesn't achieve any real goal and explain that there's "still alot of work to do" (like they are leveling a pile of gravel with shovels) , but if they can maintain their majority in the house and gain a substantial majority in the senate during mid terms they can continue to work on it.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:19 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
I wonder how many pro-legalization people on here would like to have their kids/grandkids start smoking weed in their teens and become dependent on it. Not saying our current system stops it, but at least it does put some barriers on it to try to help.
The current system not only doesn’t stop it, if potentially ruins your life for experimenting with something that for many people is completely harmless by putting you in prison and limiting your employment options. It’s garbage man.
I can’t believe I’m reading some of these takes from people that were ostensibly against the COVID mandates. Misplaced and unfounded feelings of “for the greater good” do not triumph over peoples ability to live their own life and make their own decisions.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:20 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
I'm not saying I support it or not, smoke or not, but its a big move that we don't have long term positive examples to look at. But the opposite.
Interestingly, because of this thread i looked up Colorado's report on the impact of marijuana legalization.
LINK
Traffic safety got worse.
Crime got "better", but that's because legalizing something that was once illegal will drop the crime rate.
Large increase in health related hospital visits due to marijuana. Increase instances of poisoning.
Interesting enough, there seemed to be no change in marijuana use in school aged kids.
I'm more curious about the overall health effects of long term marijuana use.
And before i get attacked by the rabid pro-weed people. All of the information i posted, comes directly from the link. I'm sure there is some weed scholar that will come in and "debunk" the study.
This post was edited on 4/1/22 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:22 pm to Ross
quote:
I can’t believe I’m reading some of these takes from people that were ostensibly against the COVID mandates. Misplaced and unfounded feelings of “for the greater good” do not triumph over peoples ability to live their own life and make their own decisions.
Is it safe to assume you’re in the “no drugs should be illegal for adults” camp?
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:23 pm to Flats
quote:
Is it safe to assume you’re in the “no drugs should be illegal for adults” camp?
Yeah, not sure equating covid masks to weed is 100% a study in parallel arguments.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:26 pm to Flats
As long as you aren’t infringing upon the rights of your fellow man, do whatever you want. Personally, I’m willing to concede a line around items like heroin, meth, bath salts; but that’s a pragmatic stance just to keep the populace feeling secure, I personally don’t care about those either and don’t think the government has much control over if someone wants to ruin their life with those vices.
I’m in the camp that the War on Drugs is a massive failure, as are almost every government initiative especially those akin to prohibition, and it’s a joke that people that masquerade as proponents of limited government would think otherwise.
I’m in the camp that the War on Drugs is a massive failure, as are almost every government initiative especially those akin to prohibition, and it’s a joke that people that masquerade as proponents of limited government would think otherwise.
This post was edited on 4/1/22 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:31 pm to BugAC
quote:
Yeah, not sure equating covid masks to weed is 100% a study in parallel arguments.
agree to disagree to an extent, and I was lumping vaccines along with masks with that commentary
I think people pick and choose with an extremely arbitrary standard when they want to impose their will on the populace “for the greater good” and when they value peoples agency in life and their ability to choose their own path
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:33 pm to Ross
quote:
Personally, I’m willing to concede a line around items like heroin, meth, bath salts; but that’s a pragmatic stance
That’s the same argument people who want to keep it illegal make, you just disagree with them over where to draw the line. I would probably draw it in the same place as you for what it’s worth, but several of you are making blue-face-paint-FREEDOM arguments but as soon as someone drills down a bit we get “well, I didn’t mean THAT much freedom”.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:36 pm to Ross
quote:
As long as you aren’t infringing upon the rights of your fellow man, do whatever you want.
That's a very weak argument.
Let's take San Fransisco. Homeless meth'd out gentleman takes a shite in front of the glass of the restaurant you are dining at. Shitting outside a restaurant hasn't harmed you. In fact, you can't blame him shitting on meth, because it is an independent action. However, you culminate the months of drug abuse, and degradation of the brain's logic and reasoning portions, and you get psychotic, sometimes violent, vagabonds who may or may not harm someone.
quote:
r and don’t think the government has much control over it someone wants to ruin their life with those vices.
Depends where you are located. Ever wonder why the netherlands are not run rampant with drug abuse like we have here in America? Because they have a treatment/penalty clause for users. If you are a user, you are provided free treatment to sober up. However, if you are caught using again, you are then imprisoned. We don't do that in America. We simply give them the carrot, with no stick.
quote:
I’m in the camp that the War on Drugs is a massive failure, as are almost every government initiative especially those akin to prohibition, and it’s a joke that people that masquerade as proponents of limited government would think otherwise.
Meh, i'm not so simple to realize that people are nuanced in their thoughts. As small government conservative as i am, i have my reservations about legalizing weed, even though i recognize it as recreational use seems harmless. However, there are many people who use MJ as a stepping stone to other things. My opinions on weed legalization are not concrete. Personally, i don't use it, nor would i if it was legal. Not my jam.
I do find it funny, that there is a contingent of posters (not necessarily talking about you), who couldn't tell you where Ukraine is on a map, but can tell you every factoid there is about marijuana, legalization, and bills proposed/passed/tabled/etc...
This post was edited on 4/1/22 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:38 pm to Ross
quote:
I think people pick and choose with an extremely arbitrary standard when they want to impose their will on the populace “for the greater good”
Not very arbitrary to understand the problems with meth, crack, heroine, LSD, etc... California is a good case study.
Weed, however, is not as simple as the harsher drugs.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:40 pm to Ross
quote:
I think people pick and choose with an extremely arbitrary standard when they want to impose their will on the populace “for the greater good” and when they value peoples agency in life and their ability to choose their own path
I think people call drawing the line anywhere but where they want it drawn “arbitrary”. A lot of people have good internal reasons for wanting weed to be legal or illegal. It’s just as lazy to call one side anti-freedom as it is to call the other side a bunch of lazy potheads.
Just to take one example where most of the board would agree, a lot of Hispanics think our ban on cock fighting is a silly, unnecessary infringement on their freedoms. We all want laws, we all disagree on where to draw the lines. That’s normal.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:46 pm to KAGTASTIC
we do not have accurate data one way or the other
how many successful people (other than maybe musk) have said
"I smoke it everyday, look at the company I built"
they can't otherwise a huge chunk of the population would boycott them
honest data can only come with laws and stigma removed
then facts and data will be able to be collected
how many successful people (other than maybe musk) have said
"I smoke it everyday, look at the company I built"
they can't otherwise a huge chunk of the population would boycott them
honest data can only come with laws and stigma removed
then facts and data will be able to be collected
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:48 pm to Ross
There's really no reason for weed to be illegal.
Its very mild shite. You can't be small govt and believe weed should be illegal.
Its very mild shite. You can't be small govt and believe weed should be illegal.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:49 pm to BugAC
quote:
Large increase in health related hospital visits due to marijuana. Increase instances of poisoning.
The report linked gives an odd overall picture regarding the health and wellness portion with stabilizing and decreasing numbers on an overall time curve.
Would be curious on the details of poison control calls and how many factors are classified on the cases
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:56 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
Yes by all means, let's legalize something that will drive more people to stay home and not work, not be a productive member of society, or give a shite about anything.
brotha im as conservative as they come, and youre not wrong at all about what you said, but you aint getting rid of weed... might as well tax that shite and let companies make money instead of drug dealers... it takes one of their products off their market..
Posted on 4/1/22 at 1:58 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
The responsible adults that live productive lives don't need for it to be legal, so that is an argument that doesn't really do much. They have a guy who they pick up their supply from, and don't get into the shady side of things.
See this is where I’m at now & almost 40, now 20 years ago I was all for it, now sure either way don’t care.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 2:07 pm to CuyahogaTigerJr
So this is the thread where all the small govt conservatives come together and say how much we need the nanny state to ensure the people can't hurt themselves by smoking plants.
Posted on 4/1/22 at 2:07 pm to KAGTASTIC
Weed is a valuable commodity in America; it is infrastructure. It's an investment in the future, and it can provide a lucrative source of revenue. And it grows everywhere: Kentucky cannabis is just as treasured as that from Hawaii or California.
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