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re: What does middle America school teachers and administration think of deleting Dept of Ed
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:42 am to Trevaylin
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:42 am to Trevaylin
quote:
Something has to be done to improve the failing reading/writing/arithmetic/science capabilities
This ultimately falls on the parents
1
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:45 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
I estimate a shite load of burdensome federal rules will be lifted such as 504, etc.
I knew a guy who briefly worked as a special ed teacher. He said the Dept of Educ has lots of rules and papers for teachers to file proving what they are doing with their students. With some of these kids just teaching them to tie their shoes is a major accomplishment. The paperwork and constant parent meetings is a pain and these teachers quit as soon as they can find a better job.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:46 am to TigerintheNO
Maybe this is more about the inefficiency of the burdensome BS teachers have to go through to actually teach children. It's an absolute joke at this point. Just like the US can't afford to just print money and give it away, we can't afford to bog schools down in quid quo pro federal mandates while the kids can't read, write, or do basic math.... and still get to continue through school grades. You'll disagree, but it's the truth of the matter.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:48 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
I estimate a shite load of burdensome federal rules will be lifted such as 504, etc.
Unfortunately, 504 and IDEA are codified law. However, the method in which those programs are reported are guided by the Fed. We constantly get "updates from the state" on how we have to document EVERYTHING to stay in compliance with the Fed.
What is going to be awesome is now the ball is in the state's court. These "updates" fall squarely on the shoulders of the state DOE. It's time for the people making the most money to earn their pay checks. I expect a lot of retirements this summer.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:49 am to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
This ultimately falls on the parents
Yes and no. Sure it's also "on the parents" , but the social engineering and ridiculous rules that are imposed on school systems "to keep their funding" are a big problem. Why do they go to school if not to be instructed on Math, Language, and Science?
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:50 am to Trevaylin
As a teacher, I am for more of the funds getting into the states.
I think that DOE currently sits as a backstop to compliance with IDEA (IEPs) and ADA (504s), so the first recourse isn't a lawsuit if a school system is noncompliant. So I would think that there is a possibility of less compliance with laws to ensure that special education students receive FAPE ( a free and appropriate education).
Ultimately, state DOEs will have to pick up the slack there for compliance.
I think federal testing requirements/high-stakes testing have neutered teachers' ability to be creative and teach outside of the box. Teachers more often than not teach to the test, and this does not promote critical thinking. If those requirements disappear, then I am all for it. Of course there needs to be metrics, but there has to be a better way that fosters critical thinking and creativity.
I think that DOE currently sits as a backstop to compliance with IDEA (IEPs) and ADA (504s), so the first recourse isn't a lawsuit if a school system is noncompliant. So I would think that there is a possibility of less compliance with laws to ensure that special education students receive FAPE ( a free and appropriate education).
Ultimately, state DOEs will have to pick up the slack there for compliance.
I think federal testing requirements/high-stakes testing have neutered teachers' ability to be creative and teach outside of the box. Teachers more often than not teach to the test, and this does not promote critical thinking. If those requirements disappear, then I am all for it. Of course there needs to be metrics, but there has to be a better way that fosters critical thinking and creativity.
This post was edited on 3/20/25 at 8:55 am
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:51 am to Gee Grenouille
quote:
So just give schools the money and be done with it
How about not take the money to being with. Reduce federal income tax by .1%, and the local ISD gets to pass another billion dollar bond that I might (actually, no chance I will) vote for. Any time a government entity gets involved in laundering money is another opportunity to decrease transparency and encourage the gaming of the system.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:51 am to Trevaylin
Younger 1/2 of public school teachers have never taken a civics class.
They have no concept how DOE works.
They have no concept how DOE works.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:51 am to Trevaylin
quote:That schools need to emphasize basic grammar, regardless of who is in charge?
What does (sic, do) middle America school teachers and administration think of deleting Dept of Ed
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:54 am to AggieHank86
My kids go to an A rated public school and it’s sad the lack of grammar being taught. My wife and I have had to fill in many gaps in their schooling relating to English and math. That said their education isn’t complete shite as my eldest was appointed to two different service academies and will be attending whichever he ends up choosing.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:56 am to Trevaylin
Im not sure if anything will greatly change. It seems that a lot of the department is being offloaded to other departments. Therefore, it might not be going away as much as under “new management”. Time will tell. 10 years in education here.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:56 am to bayoudude
Education has moved away from learning basic math facts, grammar, and writing. In our school system, a middle schooler might write 1-2 5-paragraph papers his whole middle school career.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:58 am to Boss
It became very apparent when my son started his application process to the academies and was required to write a shitload of essays. We proof read them for him and suggested changes. Now after that process he can write with the best of them but man it was rough to get him caught up.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 8:59 am to tigger4ever
quote:
What percent funding comes from the federal government to the states?
I think the average is 15%-ish (thereabouts) but some states are certainly more dependent on federal funding than others. In fact, I assume by the GOP/Trump messaging on this shutdown being something to the effect of "sunsetting the Dept of Ed without affecting a service many Americans rely on" tells you that they understand that their own constituency may be more dependent on it than they'd like to admit.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 9:12 am to bayoudude
quote:
It became very apparent when my son started his application process to the academies and was required to write a shitload of essays. We proof read them for him and suggested changes. Now after that process he can write with the best of them but man it was rough to get him caught up.
Same experience with our son. Scored a 1550 on SAT, his essays for college were crap. It took 15-20 rounds of edits from us and rewrites by him. Finally, he is becoming an above average writer, but it was taught by us, not the school system.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 9:24 am to bgtiger
quote:
Yes and no. Sure it's also "on the parents" , but the social engineering and ridiculous rules that are imposed on school systems "to keep their funding" are a big problem. Why do they go to school if not to be instructed on Math, Language, and Science?
You can find out if they are being socially engineered by asking questions. Pre COViD parents weren't doing that. It's on them.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 9:41 am to Trevaylin
quote:
we have all seen the graphs of 100% increase in nonteaching staff to take care of the Rules issued by DOE.
I would like to see non-union teachers and admin comment on the improvement/ draw backs of doing away the doe.
Something has to be done to improve the failing reading/writing/arithmetic/science capabilities.
Do not make this a funding discussion
The issue with education nowadays is the regulations. There is red tape for everything. Bureaucracy at its finest. Especially when it comes to discipline.
It needs to be streamlined where students who have no interest in being at school for an education are removed. If you can't follow rules, you don't belong at school.
Right now public high schools are teenage day cares that offer 2 meals a day and watch kids. For a portion of the students, learning is not even secondary it is just a place they have to be. Until that changes, the education part wont get any better.
If removing the DOE gives it back to the states and the states can streamline these processes, it will make things a whole lot better. If the states keep it the status quo, it will be more of the same.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 9:49 am to Trevaylin
I can understand the fear of losing something we are all used to having. But, public education would not collapse without the DOE. States and local governments already control education, not the federal government. Eliminating the DOE does NOT mean the loss of education protections, funding, or accountability.
Schools functioned before the DOE was created in 1979, and education outcomes were better. Scores have declined ever since.
States and Congress can still provide funding without the DOE acting as a middleman.
Civil rights laws, disability protections, and funding programs existed before the DOE and would continue under other agencies or state control.
The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and Section 504 do not rely on the DOE. These are federal laws states must follow, whether the DOE exists or not. Title IX, Title VI, and other protections would still be enforced by the Department of Justice (DOJ) or another agency.
Student loans existed before the DOE. Loan management could shift to the Treasury or private lenders, and DOE involvement has driven tuition costs higher by artificially inflating demand.
Fraudulent colleges already exist despite DOE oversight. The DOJ or FTC could handle fraud investigations more effectively.
Teacher training, STEM funding, and early education initiatives mostly come from states, universities, and private research organizations. These efforts would continue without federal interference.
The DOE is just a bureaucracy that duplicates functions already handled at the state and local levels. Removing it reduces federal overreach and keeps education where it belongs...under local control.
Copied from another post.
Schools functioned before the DOE was created in 1979, and education outcomes were better. Scores have declined ever since.
States and Congress can still provide funding without the DOE acting as a middleman.
Civil rights laws, disability protections, and funding programs existed before the DOE and would continue under other agencies or state control.
The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and Section 504 do not rely on the DOE. These are federal laws states must follow, whether the DOE exists or not. Title IX, Title VI, and other protections would still be enforced by the Department of Justice (DOJ) or another agency.
Student loans existed before the DOE. Loan management could shift to the Treasury or private lenders, and DOE involvement has driven tuition costs higher by artificially inflating demand.
Fraudulent colleges already exist despite DOE oversight. The DOJ or FTC could handle fraud investigations more effectively.
Teacher training, STEM funding, and early education initiatives mostly come from states, universities, and private research organizations. These efforts would continue without federal interference.
The DOE is just a bureaucracy that duplicates functions already handled at the state and local levels. Removing it reduces federal overreach and keeps education where it belongs...under local control.
Copied from another post.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 9:52 am to Boss
Special Ed was a joke in California.
We pulled our daughter out of public school. We were lucky and could afford private.
There were schools that we wished we could have sent my daughter, but we couldn't afford.
She has a brain injury and couldn't talk until she was 5, and that was minimal.
The special schools incorporated speech therapy into all subjects and also had occupational therapy and sign language.
I think vouchers for parents are good. I think more tax write off for therapies.
Private schools were easier to deal with because of small class sizes and lots of flexibility. In high school, she took some classes through and online school.
The current system is messed up. Too much paperwork. I also feel sorry for teachers having to put up with kids with behavior problems. My daughter was sweet and well behaved, so teachers liked her.
We pulled our daughter out of public school. We were lucky and could afford private.
There were schools that we wished we could have sent my daughter, but we couldn't afford.
She has a brain injury and couldn't talk until she was 5, and that was minimal.
The special schools incorporated speech therapy into all subjects and also had occupational therapy and sign language.
I think vouchers for parents are good. I think more tax write off for therapies.
Private schools were easier to deal with because of small class sizes and lots of flexibility. In high school, she took some classes through and online school.
The current system is messed up. Too much paperwork. I also feel sorry for teachers having to put up with kids with behavior problems. My daughter was sweet and well behaved, so teachers liked her.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 10:52 am to lsutiger1fan
quote:
I can understand the fear of losing something we are all used to having. But, public education would not collapse without the DOE. States and local governments already control education, not the federal government. Eliminating the DOE does NOT mean the loss of education protections, funding, or accountability.
This is why, despite being mostly skeptical of what the Trump administration is doing, I am not sure this is as bad as people think. The funding is the important thing to the states and how people perceive their level of service from the school system their children attend.
I think we're going to find that eliminating the Department of Education is not the palliative some imagine. For example, some on here seem to think this will end the IEP but I have my doubts because states will still be expected to follow certain laws on public service to disabled and cognitively impaired people. These structures will stick around as documentation for this service being rendered to a special needs student. Perhaps the Department of Education has decided certain things qualify as a special need that isn't explicit in law and now the states can carve out a different path. I imagine much of that would have already been figured out in court by now though, so I have my doubts about that too.
I think most of what is going to come from the end of the Department of Education is less federal government oversight on the state departments of education but more put upon the state departments of education to manage as the federal government thins its ranks. There will be some benefits in the states being granted more autonomy but the cost will be more state level administration.
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