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re: Why is abortion so important to the Left?
Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:59 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 10/6/22 at 11:59 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Axioms are always useful because they are the foundation of every worldview. Everyone has a worldview and each worldview requires certain axiomatic beliefs in order to function, so axioms are foundational and therefore, useful from necessity.
No, it doesn't. Just because something can be useful, doesn't mean it's always useful.
quote:Are you admitting that your position is irrational? You seem to be saying that consistency isn't necessary within a person's worldview. Am I misunderstanding?
There's no reason for "should" or "ought" to be consistent. It isn't now, and the majority of people on this planet don't believe what you believe
What I'm saying is that if what you are saying is true, it removes all obligation to act in any particular way or to believe anything in particular. Are you in agreement that if you're right about the nature of the world, that it would be inconsistent to saying anyone "should" believe or behave in any particular way?
quote:I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about how people do act, but how they should act based on the logical conclusions of particular worldviews.
This comes from fear and arrogance. Live your life, be happy, leave a legacy if you choose. Maybe that doesn't matter to you. Maybe the only thing that matters to you is the hope that your life has more meaning because you have a hole that religion fills.
That isn't everyone.
I've already said that your worldview is internally inconsistent, and those who suppose what you suppose do not act consistently, because they can't.
Everyone seeks meaning because meaning exists. Everyone adheres to a moral framework and expects all others to, as well, because morality does exist objectively. Your worldview rejects that, but then you live as if your own worldview doesn't apply to those such things.
It's why I've said that you have to borrow from the Christian worldview, because you're living in God's world and you have to borrow from Him in order to make sense of reality.
quote:Being the supreme creator of all things with no others like Himself certainly does make Him special and unique.
Yes, yours included. Your god isn't special, or even unique.
quote:Societies apply morality, they don't establish it. And even if they did, your worldview removes the ability to condemn any other society for any other moral standard that they've established.
Society does establish morality. Society also modifies morality. This isn't a secret for any student of history.
quote:Yes, it does. Your worldview precludes the existence of objective meaning in anything. Meaning is a 'why', and your worldview cannot provide that. All you can attempt to do is provide a 'what'. Your 'what' also removes the 'why' in various ways, if you believe we are nothing but cosmic accidents, evolving due to matter reacting to other matter over the course of time. There is no purpose. There is no ultimate meaning. It's up to each person to create their own meaning if they want it, but there is no meaning in the formal sense to realize.
No it doesn't. It just doesn't rely on mythology, fear, and ignorance. I don't need to hope for a better life with someone I hope exists. I already have that.
All you have is vanity, for that's all that is possible for you.
1
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:00 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Was Jesus praying that the Father would make 11 men into one man? Or was he praying for their unity?
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one. -John 10:28-30
And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. -John 17:11
I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. -John 17:20-23
You keep saying that the Bible is your final authority, then you twist and contort it every time it says something that doesn't fit your theology.
The Bible isn't your final authority. Orthodox doctrine is your final authority.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:10 pm to L.A.
quote:
Abortion
It's not just frustrating that they condone murder, but the fact that they refuse to have any rational discussion on the subject. For example, they talk about how bad Republicans are for not having any exceptions for abortion. Yet, these same people paint Republicans who support exceptions for life of the mother, rape, and incest as extremists. Which is it, Dems? Safe, legal, and rare, or abortion on demand?
Fairly recently there was a pro-life activist who spoke before congressional Dems. She was called an extremist, and simply asked the Dems if they would consider exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother and they wouldn't give her the time of day.
What's also funny is how Dems claim being pro-life is being anti-women. Bill Maher cited statistics on his show over the summer that the majority of pro-life people are...wait for it...women.
The President of March for Life? A woman
The President of Live Action? A woman
The activist that the movie "Unplanned" was based on? A woman
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Axioms are always useful because they are the foundation of every worldview. Everyone has a worldview and each worldview requires certain axiomatic beliefs in order to function, so axioms are foundational and therefore, useful from necessity.
This isn't correct.
You claim that what your god wrote is correct, and your proof is that god wrote it. That isn't useful information and it does nothing to add veracity to your claim.
quote:
Are you admitting that your position is irrational?
I'm not simply defending "my worldview" as you're always determined to do. It doesn't cause me offense for others not to believe as I believe because I don't make the claim that I have a god who supports "my worldview."
quote:
What I'm saying is that if what you are saying is true, it removes all obligation to act in any particular way or to believe anything in particular.
No it doesn't. It just removes any obligation to act in a way that's consistent with your flavor of god. Which is exactly what we have in the real world.
quote:
I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about how people do act, but how they should act based on the logical conclusions of particular worldviews.
Sure, but how they should act is only based on your beliefs. Wishing something to be so doesn't make it so. Most people on this planet don't think we should act the way you think we should act.
Inconsistency.
quote:
Being the supreme creator of all things with no others like Himself certainly does make Him special and unique.
Sure, him and the thousands of others who supposedly made the same claims.
quote:
Societies apply morality, they don't establish it. And even if they did, your worldview removes the ability to condemn any other society for any other moral standard that they've established.
They establish it.
"My worldview"(reality) doesn't prevent condemnation. It simply says that you aren't objectively correct in your condemnation.
quote:
Yes, it does. Your worldview precludes the existence of objective meaning in anything.
No, it doesn't. "It" only precludes existence of objective morality.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:28 pm to L.A.
I think social issues is just as important to the right. If social issues wasn’t part of either sides platform there would be more people vote center left than center right.
Trump would have never been elected if social issues were not part of politics. Most of the problems that evangelicals have with Trump is his personal issues. A lot of evangelicals voted for Trump anyway because he ran as a Republican.
Trump would have never been elected if social issues were not part of politics. Most of the problems that evangelicals have with Trump is his personal issues. A lot of evangelicals voted for Trump anyway because he ran as a Republican.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 12:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's one of the primary issues in facilitating potential economic equality in the workforce.
This was actually RBG’s argument.
While I completely disagree with it and find it immoral, it’s much more rational and deals with the fact that having babies can set women back in their career for simple becoming a parent.
My counter to that is that I’m sorry God or nature made it this way, but it is what it is.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 2:13 pm to L.A.
quote:He was praying for their unity in mind, spirit, and purpose, just as the Father and the Son (along with the Spirit) are. Jesus was also praying that the disciples be one with each other by the Spirit that He would send to them at Pentecost, and by the Spirit, they would have oneness with Christ. Jesus is the head and the Church (including the disciples) is the body. They are united together by faith where the Father and the Son are united by essence and substance.
Was Jesus praying that the Father would make 11 men into one man? Or was he praying for their unity?
Are you really looking for a full defense of the Trinity or just trying to trip me up?
quote:I probably quote more Bible verses in my responses than anyone on this site. I only quote from confessions or creeds when I believe they succinctly summarize what I want to say. My theology is driven from the Scriptures, not from others. Councils, creeds, confessions, and theologians all have their place in helping with understanding with additional clarity of what the Scriptures teach, but the Scriptures are my only infallible authority that nothing else can impose upon. If a council doesn't agree with the Bible, I put the Bible above the council. If a confession of faith parts ways with the Scriptures, I side with the Scriptures. If a theologian that has been gifted by God with understanding differs from the Scriptures on a particular point, I must side with the Scriptures.
You keep saying that the Bible is your final authority, then you twist and contort it every time it says something that doesn't fit your theology.
The Bible isn't your final authority. Orthodox doctrine is your final authority.
What you may be struggling with in these discussions is how I approach the Scriptures for my understanding. Most people seem to perform eisegesis on the text. They approach the Bible as if it is a buffet that each person uses as they want, picking and choosing what they want by segregating one book from another, one chapter from another, and one verse from another. Most people seem to approach the Bible as if it has no internal (or external) context that must be taken into account.
I attempt to perform exegesis on the text. I look at a word within its verse, the verse within the section, the section within the chapter, the chapter within the book, and the book within the whole of the Word of God. I interpret the unclear passages by the clear passages, and the hard by the easy. I don't make one verse shape the many but the many shaping the few, etc. When I quote a passage in support of my position, it is done with the understanding that it supports the rest of the context of Scripture.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:12 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
How does one do it right?
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:17 pm to roadGator
quote:
How does one do it right?
That's up to you.
For me, it's generally spending time riding the property with my dog and a rifle or backpack hunting in NW Montana.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:20 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
That’s spirituality?
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:27 pm to FooManChoo
quote:I've spent the last 50 years studying it. There is no full defense of the Trinity, at least not in a rational, honest way
Are you really looking for a full defense of the Trinity or just trying to trip me up?
You understand that the words "God in three persons" is found nowhere in the Bible, right? You're using the language of the church fathers, not the language of the Bible.
One God in three persons is non-sensical gibberish. No one speaks like that in real life. That explanation utilizes language in a way that is completely disconnected from the actual meaning of the words
It also completely contradicts God's revelation of Himself in the Hebrew Bible. Jews and Muslims both think Christians are polytheistic idolators because of their belief in the Trinity. And it is the single greatest stumbling block to their conversion to Christianity
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:28 pm to roadGator
Have you ever been to NW Montana?
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:30 pm to FooManChoo
quote:You are completely obtuse on this subject. You seem to have absolutely no awareness that you do the exact thing you are accusing me of doing, and you do it in almost every single post.
What you may be struggling with in these discussions is how I approach the Scriptures for my understanding. Most people seem to perform eisegesis on the text.
I give you a verse from the lips of Jesus. He says plainly, clearly, unequivocally "The Father is greater than I."
You come up with a convoluted eisegesis that shows, in your mind, that Jesus couldn't really mean what he said.
The Bible is your authority when it agrees with your theology. When it doesn't, you turn to the church fathers
This post was edited on 10/6/22 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:32 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Wolf spirit?
No. But Big Sky is on the short list.
No. But Big Sky is on the short list.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:39 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
I took a nice mulie near Ovando three years ago.
Beautiful country.
Beautiful country.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:41 pm to roadGator
Big Sky used to be cool, but like most of SW Montana, transplants and tourists ruined it. Fun for a day trip, but to hell with staying there.
When you make it up, try to stay north of Bozeman. You're welcome.
When you make it up, try to stay north of Bozeman. You're welcome.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:49 pm to TGFN57
We aren't too far from there.
My wife hates the winters, but we've been staying later and later in the year. If I get my way, I'll get her fully acclimated and we'll ditch Florida for good.
My wife hates the winters, but we've been staying later and later in the year. If I get my way, I'll get her fully acclimated and we'll ditch Florida for good.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:49 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Skiing. I’d rather fish than hunt.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:54 pm to roadGator
NW Montana definitely doesn't have any of that.
Posted on 10/6/22 at 3:57 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Whitefish it is then. 
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