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re: Women in Combat: What say you?
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If they can do all the physical and mental requirements of combat, sure...but I doubt 1% in the military can. Therein lies the rub.
Even if you find 1% that can it's an unnecessary disruption for troops in austere conditions. The question should be "what does allowing them in the infantry do to enhance our lethality?" The answer is "nothing".
0
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:14 am to Lutcher Lad
Negative for me Ghost-Rider. I don't want to live in a country where our daughters, wives and mothers have to be in combat.
But just behind the lines, draft them, if need be.
But just behind the lines, draft them, if need be.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:14 am to Lutcher Lad
No.
And I am pretty liberal on many of these kinds of things, and I think Hegseth is a meathead and terrible candidate for SoD.
But he is right on this.
I generally think it's gross when veterans pull the "Well, I fought in XYZ and my opinion is better informed than yours!" card, but this is one of those few instances where it really does matter. Until you've been in that crucible and really understand what it's like, then your opinion really just doesn't matter on this.
It fricks up unit dynamics in war so badly that it's almost impossible to overstate. It detracts from the lethality of our forces. Hard fricking no.
I know a number of combat vets who are left enough to be borderline communist who would even acknowledge that it's an awful idea.
And I am pretty liberal on many of these kinds of things, and I think Hegseth is a meathead and terrible candidate for SoD.
But he is right on this.
I generally think it's gross when veterans pull the "Well, I fought in XYZ and my opinion is better informed than yours!" card, but this is one of those few instances where it really does matter. Until you've been in that crucible and really understand what it's like, then your opinion really just doesn't matter on this.
It fricks up unit dynamics in war so badly that it's almost impossible to overstate. It detracts from the lethality of our forces. Hard fricking no.
I know a number of combat vets who are left enough to be borderline communist who would even acknowledge that it's an awful idea.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:17 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:
As long as they meet the male standards without lowering the standards, let them fight. The only real issue I see is the fear of them being captured then raped.
The never talked about and I believe most important issue is unit cohesion. Remember the bulk of a platoon comprises of mainly 18-25 year old hard legs, jacked up on testosterone and ripped fuel, or whatever they take today. I have personally witnessed what a chick in the motor pool can do to squad/platoon level cohesion in infantry units. Now you're talking about dropping that slab of raw chicken directly into the gator pit? Hard pass. the benefits (what are they, honestly? Can somebody please enlighten me.) do not outweigh the cost. Ever.
If the everyday American understood the means and methods a combat soldier is willing to pursue just to score a decent combat jack, no man woman or girl would ever believe this is a good idea.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:20 am to 4x4tiger
quote:
they shouldn't even be voting
I was recently reading about President James Garfield's wife Lucretia and thought it was funny she was an advocate for equal pay, but she didn't want women voting unless they became more educated.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 9:21 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:23 am to Lutcher Lad
Never in combat. Men and women are biologically and physiologically different. I don't care if they can meet some arbitrary standard. They will always be a liability relative to men in actual combat.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:24 am to Lutcher Lad
Women should be protected. The men should fight. We shouldn’t put women in harms way.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:24 am to Scruffy
quote:
Which is why he said they have to meet the EXACT same physical standards that the men have to meet, otherwise no combat positions.
Still not ok with it.
If for nothing else that the periods, stricter hygiene needs, and different equipment fit and HMI requirements that cause logistical nightmares.
Totally ignore the physical capability differences, the natural sex drive problem that it causes, the psychological differences, the HUGE glaringly obvious issues with it. Its still a bad idea strictly from a logistical and financial perspective.
There are countless very important roles that women can excell in and provide tremendous value to our warfighting capability. Combat is not one of them.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:24 am to Lutcher Lad
If a female wants to engage in combat I am all for it. If you want to get yourself killed fine.
I do not want a women in a combat situation where she is responsible or part of a team because she will in fact be the weak link and by weak I mean cannot keep up with the men in these situations. Also, if she gets grabbed by an enemy combatant she will be killed and probably raped for all the world to see.
These men train carrying 80LB bags 30 miles. Women simply cannot do that.
I do not want a women in a combat situation where she is responsible or part of a team because she will in fact be the weak link and by weak I mean cannot keep up with the men in these situations. Also, if she gets grabbed by an enemy combatant she will be killed and probably raped for all the world to see.
These men train carrying 80LB bags 30 miles. Women simply cannot do that.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 9:26 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:25 am to Scruffy
quote:
If they can meet the exact same standards as their male counterparts and the standards aren’t lowered to allow for this.
It’s not just this, there is absolutely no way a female could have made it through IOC, but male/female relations in a platoon setting is something no officer should have to deal with. When in combat you have enough issues to deal with. Adding this issue draws away from the focus on the mission.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:27 am to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
It’s not just this, there is absolutely no way a female could have made it through IOC, but male/female relations in a platoon setting is something no officer should have to deal with. When in combat you have enough issues to deal with. Adding this issue draws away from the focus on the mission.
I have no issue with women serving in support roles.
They are also physically more equipped to handle more G forces so women becoming pilots might work but their hand eye coordination is slower.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 9:29 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:28 am to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
It’s not just this, there is absolutely no way a female could have made it through IOC, but male/female relations in a platoon setting is something no officer should have to deal with. When in combat you have enough issues to deal with. Adding this issue draws away from the focus on the mission.
Lets not mention a bunch of dudes and one gash out there. Sometimes ugly looks good when you are away for a long long time.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:28 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If they can handle the physical and psychological rigors, sure.
Tell us you never humped a combat load without telling us you have never humped a combat load.
Tell us you never had to try and evacuate a wounded comrade without ever evacuating wounded comrade.
Tell us you have never been a platoon commander without ever telling us you have never been a platoon commander.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:29 am to Lutcher Lad
quote:
I wonder how my fellow veterans feel about this?
women in the military come with a lot of problems. I don't mind them in some roles but they shouldn't be in combat roles or on subs.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:29 am to JiminyCricket
quote:If that is the definition, I say "no". Hell no!
I'd define it as boots on the ground carrying a weapon.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:29 am to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Tell us you never humped a combat load without telling us you have never humped a combat load.
This alone is why women cannot be on the front. This simple fact.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:30 am to Lutcher Lad
I have wondered about the incidental costs of integrating women....
Ejection seats now have to work across an even broader spectrum of physiques. F-35 spent millions expanding the lower end of that spectrum to suit smaller females. (are larger men discriminated against?).
Additional facilities, supplies, equipment (eg uniforms) for women.
How much has the inclusion of women altered the design and efficiency of warships, esp submarines?
It may not be much but it adds up.
Ejection seats now have to work across an even broader spectrum of physiques. F-35 spent millions expanding the lower end of that spectrum to suit smaller females. (are larger men discriminated against?).
Additional facilities, supplies, equipment (eg uniforms) for women.
How much has the inclusion of women altered the design and efficiency of warships, esp submarines?
It may not be much but it adds up.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:30 am to ABearsFanNMS
Youre overreacting as usual. All I said is if they can handle the rigor.
If they cant, they shouldnt be out there.
If they cant, they shouldnt be out there.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:30 am to jizzle6609
quote:
Lets not mention a bunch of dudes and one gash out there.
I don't understand how the argument ever has to be more complex than this.
People are going to screw. Add some stress, some pent up libido, one woman for a pile of men to compete for. How's that help win the fight?
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:31 am to Lutcher Lad
I'm a woman and I say they do not belong in combat. That is a man's job.
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